T&C Mass Variation CF

[recovering]

I just do not understand how this can happen without our agreement actually not just without agreement but the complete opposite of what I said,
It makes me feel it is going to be a very long 3 years ahead
Please let us know your thoughts Michael
I hope we all have the energy to get through this
I am doubting it at the moment

[recovering]

Let us know what they say sprowstownboy
that is of course if you manage to speak to anyone

[hubert]

I told cf over the phone I didn't want new t&cs and they apparently marked my file to indicate that.

No letter received yesterday but I half expect to see one arrive soon...

[abbiesmum2003]

Our report has arrived in the post this morning.
Have you all emailed CF to argue this? We didnot give our consent for a change in t&c's. This is disgusting. I am livid. Just ehen i had thought things were ok with them. Do we conplain to IS? Didnt susan get in trouble for this sort of thing before?
Michael whats best way to handle this?

[sprowstonboy]

I've emailed CF this morning. I thought it best to keep a written account of this matter and I have also asked them to respond by email. I'll keep you up to date with the response.

[abbiesmum2003]

Ive emailed them this morning as well.

[Michael Peoples]

As far as we have ever been told, an IP needs the consent of a debtor to call a variation and change any of the terms of the proposal. It is basically a contract and one side cannot unilaterally change the T&Cs without agreement otherwise the whole thing is a nonsense.

It may be the case that the changes do not adversely affect any of the old PJG clients as the minimum dividend requirement was removed. However if anyone is paying 100p in the £ they will find it takes longer and more money to achieve this so the clients will be unduly harmed.

There may be grounds to complain or at the very least seek clarification from the regulators as to whether a variation can be called without debtor consent but I can also understand most people just want their IVAs over. If you are not adversely affected by this variation then it is understandable to just let the thing go and ride out the rest of the term.

I am sure Melanie will not be happy about this as had she been allowed to charge 20% of realisations she would probably not have had to sell. She certainly believed that she was selling her book to a firm that would look after her clients and any stress subsequently caused to those clients has distressed Melanie.

[ridingthestorm]

So reading through it all again last night, my views are, my IVA hasnt changed in regards to me... The only changes are CF get a higher fee and creditors get less back from me ! but the creditors have agreed this so more fool them. Or have I completely over looked this. Trying to take a step back over this as I was a complete nervous wreck when I was transferred to CF from PJG and I don't want that to happen again. Also there's no PPI for me.

[hubert]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by ridingthestorm

So reading through it all again last night, my views are, my IVA hasnt changed in regards to me... The only changes are CF get a higher fee and creditors get less back from me ! but the creditors have agreed this so more fool them. Or have I completely over looked this. Trying to take a step back over this as I was a complete nervous wreck when I was transferred to CF from PJG and I don't want that to happen again. Also there's no PPI for me.

I don't think there's any real reason to be worried about the new t&cs really.

Essentially, should the iva complete as expected it will make no difference to you.

However I can see 3 exceptions.

1-if your iva failed then you would be left owing a bit more since a bigger slice of your payments is going to cf.

2-if you have any joint debts with a spouse who is not in the iva, you're paying less towards it and so ultimately as a couple may end up paying a bit more back.

3-if you decide to make a F&F settlement some time down the road you'll have paid less off your debts so may need to make a bigger offer.

But if you have no joint debts and expect the iva to complete normally it won't make any difference as far as I can see.

As a example an iva paying £475 per month will pay around £2,200 less off the debts at 20% than if it was at 12% if my maths is correct. I course if you have less than 5 years left the different will diminish accordingly.

BUT!

Even if the new t&cs massively benefitted us that's not the point. The issue for me is them being forced upon us without consent.

[sprowstonboy]

I had a look at the maths behind the increase in fees in respect of my IVA. It was quite surprising the impact on my creditors. It should be borne in mind that the fee increase is retrospective. My total debt was around £71k, I will be paying back around £72k before fees, after 5 years far I've paid £60k with fees being £9k at the current 15%. If fees increased to 23% then ultimate fees would become £17k which would mean that £8k of the £10k I pay in the final year would be kept by Creditfix, for doing very little!

[hubert]

Postman came and went. No letter from CF today

[nrushton]

I also received the same letter this morning (also an ex client of PJG) my final payment for my IVA is next month, I’m not sure how this will now effect that? Can they really do this? What is also confusing is that all the creditors voted ”for” all the “resolutions” bar 1 resolution (they were against me keeping 50% of any PPI ), however, at the bottom of each resolution column it states percentage 62% and underneath that “rejected”. Michael have you seen the paperwork we have been sent and are you able to help with this? Also they are hacking the fees up to 23% for me, not 20%. I did not sign or agree to any new T&C’s, nor a meeting of creditors, that I am 100% certain. What also angers me is that they have the time to send out T&C’s, chairman reports, bank detail changes, but not one person has contacted me with regards to the completion of my IVA.

[Michael Peoples]

Nrushton. I have not received anything from you as yet but I will certainly have a look when I get it. If only 62% voted in favour then the resolutions were rejected. I have seen one report where the fee was increased to 20% after a modification was proposed by a creditor but that is the only one.

It is certainly news to me that a variation can be called without the consent of the debtor so perhaps a call to the regulators would clarify the matter.

[recovering]

Michael are the regulators the link that Foggy posted? I still think whether it affects us or not the fact CF have gone completely against what we all stated is wrong
If they do not need consent why send the original latters asking for signatures? something is wrong here

[Michael Peoples]

The insolvency practitioners association may be able to help with the query and their web address is;

http://www.insolvency-practitioners.org ... contact-us

You may need to use the Gateway should you wish to proceed with a complaint but they may be able to answer the specific query about whether or not a variation can be called without the consent of the debtor. This would at least let you know whether you have grounds for complaint.