the bailiffs are knocking.

[nf77]

Ian

I think it is great that you have helped out like this.
[/quote]

Ian has been the most helpful and understnding person we could have for in our situation. His support and all here has made a big difference.

He is right that the manager at the council has his head stuck up one of his own orrifices, he was overheard on the telephone (whilst we were apparently on hold) making jibes about our personal situation.
Although now we have spoken with an official receiver and not the examiner we seem to be getting sense, almost!!!
He has been in touch with this guy at the council and had stern words with him which seems to have changed his attitude.
The bailiffs can still come and take possesions but as there is hardly anything near to cover the debt he advises us to ring him on their arrival and if he is in the mood he will call them off and that will be the end of the matter!!!
How absolutely obsurd that your quality of living lies in the hands of the moody guy at the council.
Will keep you all updated after the weekend and again many thanks for your concern and support.
Nic

[Soulgrowth]

In my most recent experience trying to communicate with the council is like trying to communicate with the Inland Revenue and both seem run by the Gestapo!

Good luck Nic

Debbie

[markiboy]

Ian,
May I say well done for helping out. Thats what makes this site so good. The stress of debt is bad enough but I know there is a helping hand out there with people like you and the other guys (I mean you as well Mel)x
Markiboy

[markiboy]

PS,

NF77 I am so glad it's sorted. Baliffs are a law in themselves. I have had many dealings with them. Not with me but as part of a job I had. Some are just thugs with powers.
Markiboy

[ianmillington]

Hi Nicola

I'm just sorry we didn't score an outright win although at least you now appear to have got the OR on your side, which has got to help.

This issue has caused me to look at the law in some detail. Don't want to overpublicise this as it's the first time I've ever encountered a Council acting in this way, but if the council has got a liability order (necessary for the right to distrain)before bankruptcy then the Bankruptcy Order isn't much of a defence to the action. An IVA probably would be, however. Perverse isn't it. but it's something else to factor in when determining Bankruptcy v IVA.

Ian

[zoe]

I am sorry to state that the information that has been given is absolute rubbish. Even if a Liab order has been obtained the debt is still covered by the Bankruptcy. The section in the Non-Domestic (Collection and Enforcement) (Local Lists) regs that you quote mearly means that you can be made bankrupt for non payment of business rates. I find it absolutely appalling that this Council is taking this attitude with you - it is VERY WELL known in Local Authority revenues that if the person is made bankrupt then Council Tax or Business Rates are included in their debts you need to put everything in writing to the authority concerned and if the response if not satifactory then you have a case for the ombudsman
Z

[ianmillington]

Can I suggest you take a look at Section 347(8) & 347 (9) of the Insolvency Act 1986?

[zoe]

am i missing somthing that is for rent???

[ianmillington]

It's for everything other than rent, thus it's only a landlords rights that are affected. HMRC and local authorities can just press on, sadly.

[zoe]

However they didn't distrain until after BR did they???

[ianmillington]

It doesn't matter, unfortunately. The key is date of the liability order.

Once that's made, they can go legal, distrain or petition. If they petition, then they can't later distrain although they can distrain then petition for any shortfall.

Under S 347(9) the right to distrain is exercisable nothwithstanding that the property has vested in the Trustee, which is of course a post-bankruptcy event. So unless the council was the petitioner, which in this case it wasn't, then it can continue (or start) distraint proceedings.

Unfair.

ian

[zoe]

Blimey
I work as a manager for a Local Authority Revenues department and i have never heard of that!
We always (and surrounding authorities too) include in the BR!!!!

[ianmillington]

Then you can understand:

a) why until it got researched in a real-time case it didn't dawn on any of us and
b) Why I was suitably vague about the legal situation once we got to the bottom of it!

Ian

[zoe]

Yes Ian
it has still surprised me though!!!

[ianmillington]

28 years in the job and I still learn something new every day.