The cards are soon to be on the table!!

[Soulgrowth]

Briefly put, my ongoing 'story' is of having been in a successful IVA for a year only to find an overlooked old business liability (being tied into a shop lease and subsequent unpaid lease payments incurred by someone else but ultimately my responsibility)made the choice of petitioning for my own bankruptcy look to be the only solution.

With a bit of magic worked by a brilliant insolvency company this is now where I am 'at';

1. I have intentionally not paid a total of 3 months IVA payments so that the IVA essentially becomes failed

2. I have formally written a letter to my IVA provider requesting that they terminate my IVA from the end of August.

3. This takes me out of the IVA and puts all my creditors, including the new unexpected one, all on an equal footing again?

4. A re-mortgage to cover a full and final settlement based on the original 36p in the £1 IVA should complete tomorrow ... fingers crossed (after terminating my IVA).

4. I am appointing a new IP who will then go to the table with all the creditors on tne basis of "please accept a full and final offer or our client will have to petition for her own bankruptcy"

My question is will the 75% voting rule still apply in this instance, bearing in mind that the original IVA went through with no glitches and many of the debts have since been bought out by Max Recovery or Eversheds?

Do any of the experts have a crystal ball as to the success of this 'plan'? .....

Debbie

[Soulgrowth]

P.S

What is likely to the £4,000 already paid into the IVA?

Debbie

[Adam Davies]

Hi Debbie
It will be a new IVA proposal so the usual 75% approval will be needed.
An interesting route to a solution and I wish you well.
regards
PS the 4k paid in will almost certainly be gobbled up by IP fees and your debts will be the same.

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp

[Cybus]

I have to ask the question 'Why?'
Bankruptcy is not your only solution.

Why could your Supervisor not have written to the creditor concerned and advised them of the 'Effects of Approval' of the arrangement?

Correct me if I am wrong but the arrangement once approved, binds all creditors who were entitled to vote at the meeting and those who would have been entitled to vote had they had notice of the meeting.

Your overlooked business liability could have been brought in to the original arrangement.

I believe you have been ill advised to terminate the IVA and start over.

If it is not too late, you should ask the original Supervisor to Review Section 260 of the Insolvency Act 1986 and explain why it does not apply to the overlooked creditor and why they could not have been brought in to your arrangement.

I would be genuinely interested to know what the answer is. Seriously.

Is the new IP with a different company?




Tell it like it is.

[MelanieGiles]

I too am curious as to why this has not been dealt with within the existing IVA. Is the liability you refer to significant, and have you asked your current IP to see whether they are prepared to put forward a variation for you of the original terms to seek the inclusion of this creditors - with their prior permission of course.

I have a feeling that you were posting about this earlier on the forum, and that there is a logic to your strategy, but do bear in mind that your original IP has to terminate the existing IVA firstly, and may just do that by petitioning for your bankruptcy first in the event of failure.

I would tread carefully if I were you!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Cybus]

Thing that is jumping immediately to my mind is that if it's same firm acting, they have not given proper advice and have in fact viewed it from the point of view of another fee.
I hope I am wrong



Tell it like it is.

[MelanieGiles]

I read this that the poster is unsatisfied with the existing IP, and has found a new company to represent him/her and also deal with the excluded creditor.

Problem I forsee is that the existing IP has to formally cease to act, before a new IVA can be put forward, and that Max Recovery are not going to be happy with all of this process. Sledgehammers and nuts spring to ming, and existing IP would have to put forward his client's variation whether he likes it or not.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Soulgrowth]

It might have been possible to have modified the original IVA proposal, one confounding variable was the ongoing outstanding liability for the lease. My liability for this would be (is at the moment) over a £1000 a month ... thus bankruptcy as my income now greatly exceeds my outgoings. A 'condition' placed upon the new creditor (The Landlord) will be that in order for him to be a beneficient of the full and final (i.e for him to get 36p in the £1 rather than next to nothing in bankruptcy)he will have to agree to allow to a surrender the lease this, apparently can be achieved if going to the table on the basis of a new IVA rather than the existing one, otherwise the debt would have continued to mount up in terms of ongoing unpaid lease payments. On this basis, if the Landlord fails to agree then all the creditors lose out.

When I first notified my IP, a notable and respected firm, of the situation back at the beginning of June their response was "oh, dear ... looks like you will need to declare bankruptcy ... but you can't all the time you are in a successsful IVA ... so stop paying as then we will make you bankrupt and it will save you the £478!" ... no offer of advice whatsover and I was completely at sea! The folks here were particularly brilliant in inspiring me to seek alternative answers. At least we've whittled it down to two options ... Full & Final or bankruptcy.

The new IP will be from a completely different firm ... a small independent with novel ideas rather than large company with anonymous faces on the end of a telephone line ... interesting considering some of the recent dicussions regarding 'IVA Factories'

Debbie

[Soulgrowth]

I am very much resigned to the fact that it will either go one way ... or the other. If it works, it works ... if not then I shall simply hand it all over to the OR so that all the creditors can 'fight' it out with him/her! The winning means that I have a larger but affordable new monthly mortgage payment ... the 'losing' that I have the incovenience of bankruptcy ... which is not the end of the world!

Debbie

P.S
Grant Thronton (not the original IP I might add) also had a look at the situation for me and couldn't see any solutions other than bankruptcy

[MelanieGiles]

Debbie

You could still put that point to the landlord throught the medium of the existing IVA - there is nothing really different about the old one and the new one, save for the fact that your new IP will be racking up unecessary nominee fees at your creditors' expense.

The advice you have received all round seems a little rigid - anything is possible in the arena of IVA voting - you just need a good justification for what you are proposing and 75% in value of the voting - which I am sure you would get from Max Recovery and the landlord as you rightly say the outcome in bankruptcy is far worse for both parties.

Still can't see the need for a new IVA I am afraid, but then we do not have the full facts to hand on this forum.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Soulgrowth]

Hi Melanie

It will be a full and final offer VS or bankruptcy rather than a new IVA.

McCambridge Duffy weren't interested in finding a solution whatsover ... I sought advice also from Grant Thornton who also had a shrug of the shoulders approach

I think that one of the sticking points is that there would have to be some kind of legalities with solicitors involved outside of the IP to deal with the lease issue ... none of the aforementioned companies seemed to want to take on the complexities of the situation.

If it has to go to the OR at least they can't say that I didn't try [:(]

Debbie

[MelanieGiles]

OK - I remember your original posts now. So are you saying that your existing IP is going to put forward a variation for you? It's just that you keep talking about a new IVA, so I am getting confused!! Or is the new IP firm you have found just going to try and make a direct offer to creditors on your behalf?

There is nothing complex about doing a deal with a landlord. You put forward a sensible commercial offer and they either say yes or no!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Soulgrowth]

Sorry to confuse you Melanie ... the new IP will be making a direct offer to my creditors on my behalf.

I have kept McCambridge Duffy informed throughout and even though I have now missed four payments I have not received anything from them so in my letter to them I have asked them very nicely if they will terminate my agreement for me which leaves me free to seek alternative solutions to my problem seeing as they were unable to help me by their own admission!

Debbie

[MelanieGiles]

Debbie

Be sure to keep us informed of your progress with this - I am very interested to see the outcome, and best of luck with whatever you decide to do in the future.



Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

For further details contact me at http://www.melaniegiles.com and view my IVA blog at: http://melaniegiles.blogs.iva.co.uk

[Soulgrowth]

I most certainly will Melanie ...

Debbie