it true that iva council is not genuine?

[d.m]

reading some of the posts regarding the IVA Council is it true that they are not genuine. I received a letter yesterday and have been on the IVA for less than a year and am really worried. I always speak to the same person regarding my IVA and as the company was really helpful and I am paying less than what I was struggling to find before hand and am not being hassled by creditors I felt it was the best option at the time. I have no idea who to ask for advice as I don't know anyone else on an IVA. They knew who I was with and the court date. Please advise.

[gavin]

if u r happy with your iva then just ignore the letter and send it to your ip the iva Council just wont your money and dont give a sht@? about you

[Reviva UK]

Hi d.m

If the IVA is working for you then don't worry about the letter it is not directed at you.

They are interested in people who want to go bankrupt.

[Adam Davies]

Hi Paul
What is your view on the IVAC ?
They appear to be in the same market area as yourself,indirectly,as they refer possible bankruptcy cases to UK bankruptcy for an assisted service in declaring actual bankruptcy
Regards

[Soulgrowth]

Andy ... can I very discreetly slip in a little word actually in praise of UK Bankruptcy Ltd here ... they seem to get a lot of bad press on the Forum here and are frowned upon and I feel really very guilty for even saying anything good about them ...

... but if it were not for the brilliant guys at UK Bankruptcy in Bournemouth Mike, Toby, Jordie etc ... when the problems with my IVA arose last year and McCambridge Duffy (my IP) washed their hands of me completely I would by now be bankrupt and have lost my house. The guys at UK Bankruptcy were able to come up with some brilliant, dynamic solutions for me which now means that I am in a position to offer a full and final settlement of my IVA and I still have my house.

So ... I apologise if I am going against the grain of the Forum here but I just have to say credit where credit is due and stand up in defence for them ... at the risk of being eaten alive by the experts here and admin

Debbie

P.S
Thanks also are due to Melanie of course for having a word in the ear of McCambridge Duffy once UK Bankruptcy had got me back on track.

[MelanieGiles]

Debbie

The bad press on the forum has more been directed to the IVA Council rather than UK Bankruptcy, but could you tell us more about the "brilliant, dynamic solutions" they came up with for you?

I had understood that your case was all about a post-IVA contingent creditor claim, which is relatively simple to deal with.

[Reviva UK]

Hi Andy

Thanks for the opportunity to be clear about what we do and don't do.

We have in the past written to people in IVA's so there is a similarity to the IVA council. However that is where the similarity ends.

We don't believe that IVA's are a bad solution and wherever possible we work to help the caller remain in the IVA.

We will liaise with the Supervisor where we represent the client in the discussion. This might often be a discussion about the annual review or what can be done about a change of circumstance ( baby / job / car broken etc etc ). Historically about 10% of the people we write to call for a chat and we end up discussing the case with the IP for about 6 people out of a 100 letters. So they may have an extended term, might have a break to get the car fixed etc. Fundamentally the people who call use were nervous about speaking to the IP. We do not charge for this because people do not have a dsposable income but nevertheless need help.

Occasionally we find people who have had a major change in circumstance that cannot complete the IVA. The most usual one is where they are on a fixed rate mortgage which ends while they are in he IVA. They are unable to obtain a similar mortgage deal so their mortgage payments rise dramatically thus leaving no disposable income for the IVA. Clearly if the IVA proposal was reviewed carefully at the outset this position could have been avoided but invariably leads to Br.

There are also people who have had an "over enthusiastic I & E" impossed on them because they were too nervous to push back a little. In these cases people cannot survive and they end up being supported by family / friends or worse still NEW DEBT during the iVA.

We would then give them free advice, recommend they speak with their IP after they understand the probable outcome and advise them of all the options. They may decide to have the IVA fail and perhaps try to re apply to a DMP or another IVA with a better understanding of affordable payments.

If folks decide to go Br we explain the whole process, down to which OR inspector they are likely to get and the little details that aren't obvious like the NT tax code. We will direct them where to get all the documents for them to do it themselves. If they decide they would like help then we can.

The other major difference is that the letter we use is not aggressive and is not designed to frighten people, it simply lists the areas in which we might be able to help such as:-

change of circumstance
working overtime or 2nd job to meet IVA payments
friends & family helping with IVA payments


Hope this helps a little

[Soulgrowth]

Melanie ... When I first approached McCambridge Duffy in May 2007 their only advice to me was that because this was a post IVA debt and complicated by a lease obligation that my ONLY option was bankruptcy. They NEVER mentioned anything to do with the possibility of a "post-IVA contingent creditor claim".

They clearly advised me to stop making my IVA payments so as to raise the money to pay for my bankruptcy fees. The last IVA payment I made was in May 2007. I was never given the opportunity to speak to my IP, ... I only got to speak to my IP in December after you had stepped in Melanie and after you folks here on the Forum had given me advice re the relevant sections of the Insolvency Act to quote to McCambridge Duffy them asking WHY they were not addressing this as a post IVA variation ... and after getting advice from another IP recommended to me by UK Bankruptcy. Only then did they suddenly start expressing any interest in my situation.

Last summer I was at my wits end, McCambridge Duffy had washed their hands of any solutions other than not harassing me for IVA payments ...

...UK Bankruptcy offered me unprecendented and excellent support and advice 24hrs a day, making me feel that there was someone on my side (a little like Paul has done in another thread) I had a phone number to ring 24hrs a day if I needed it. I felt I had a friend at last. They held a number of case conferences on me and I met for lunch one day last summer with one of their directors Toby who was incredibly inspirational and helped me to feel more positive about things.

Through the case conferences they came up with the solution of finding me a remortgage which, of course, had to be a sub-prime mortgage because of my credit situation, and I know that they pulled out all the stops for me to achieve this. By releasing the equity from the property the plan was then to offer a full and final settlement in which my creditors would receive the same as in the IVA.

As McCambridge Duffy had essentially told me that "there was no more they could do for me" UK Bankruptcy, after trying unsuccessfully to liase with them on my behalf, found me a new IP. The plan was to put all the "ducks in a row", set the remortgage money in place (the £39,000 of which has been sitting in my bank since last September), wait until McCambridge Duffy defualted me on my IVA and then appoint the new IP to offer the full and final.

This really seemed extreme to me, as why couldn't McCambridge Duffy do this for me? However I felt that I had to tread a little carefully as I shouldn't have re-mortgaged without their permission whilst in the IVA. But the option was bankruptcy with the amount needed for the F&F sat in the equity of my house! Crazy! And so I decided to give McCambridge Duffy one last try instead of going with the new IP

You may recall that towards the end of last year yourself and Mike pointed me in the right direction to quote the post IVA variation clause at McCambridge Duffy and because of this and your intervention made them sit up and take notice in addition to me telling them that I needed them to default me on the IVA so that I could appoint a new IP and please could they explain why they weren't able to do this for me.

Then a few weeks ago I had an email asking me to chase my landlord to put in his claim ... you pointed me to the clause which states that he has to do this within a certain time ... I pointed this out to McCambridge Duffy ... the expiry date of the request runs out on Monday.

So, you can see, if it had not been for the support of UK Bankruptcy, and the knowledge and free advice if those of you all on the forum, if it had left to my IP I would be bankrupt by now.

Uk Bankruptcy conducted an I & E on me when I first contacted them and I have paid to them fees of £1, 500 for sorting this out for me (based on equivalent IVA payments that McCambridge Duffy told me to stop paying) ... if I had had it then I would have paid UK Bankruptcy ten times more for what they have helped me to do with my life.

Thanks for listening Melanie (presuming you still are!) this had been therapeutic for me to get this down ... I hadn't quite realised how let down by and angry I had felt towards my IP ... so it's been good to get this off my chest ... and I have to admit to having shed a few tears whilst writing this.

Debbie

[MelanieGiles]

That's a great post Debbie, and goes to show that even if you feel you are not getting anywhere with your own IP that there are folks out there who can help - even if that involves a £1,500 fee!

Firms like Reviva and UK Bankruptcy have their place in this industry - but I personally feel that the latter have rather blotted their reputation generally by being assoicated with the IVA Council. So it is good to hear a first hand story to support some of the good work that they have done in the past.

In my book, there should be no need for intervention between IP and client, but Debbie's post clearly shows that when dealing with the larger firms, where there is little direct contact with the decision maker - ie the IP personally - that there is going to be a market for the services of firms like this.

Thank you for writing the post Debbie, although I am very familiar with your story, it is useful to see it paraphrased from start to finish, and let's hope you get some closure very soon.

[Soulgrowth]

Thanks for your kind words Melanie.

In my personal opinion the problem arises when there becomes some misunderstanding in the actual role of the Insolvency Practioner. Are they merely an IVA generator or a professional that you are paying a professional fee to help you, as an individual, to address your insolvency issues? McCambridge Duffy just weren't interested when it became the latter. And this is where I agree that perhaps a smaller company is better. I also do still think that in the case of IVAs Insolvency Practitioners err on the side of the creditors, which is quite understandable as they have a number of IVAs to generate and therefore wish to maintain good relationhsips with creditors.

However, I would ask in which other profession does one pay professional fees for the professional you have commissioned to work for you work more for the other side than your own? Would you expert your solicitor for example to support your opponent? My fees to McCambridge Duffy, who would have allowed me to go bankrupt, are five times as much than those to UK Bankruptcy who "saved" me!

I acknowledge that during the course of my own journey, the role of my IP changed from an IVA provider to an Insolvency Practioner and therefore I do not hold too much negativity against the company, other than the fact they are so heads down in generating IVAs that they did not see that my needs, as their client, had changed.

As for UK Bankruptcy's association with the IVA council, I suppose that all of us professionals have to generate business some way! [:(]

So ... let's hope that all's well that ends well. And thank you Andy for allowing me the opportunity to blow the trumpet for UK Bankruptcy ... as they more than deserved it in my case [:)]

Debbie

[MelanieGiles]

In terms of the role of the Insolvency Practitioner, it is important to remember that there are two clear and differing roles throughout the life of an IVA.

Firstly in acting as your Nominee, the IP is appointed by you to represent you in proposing an IVA to your creditors. In this case, the IP's primary duty of care is to ensure that your proposal complies with current legislation, and to determine whether in his/her opinion it has a reasonable chance of acceptance and running for its proposed duration.

The appointment of Supervisor is not actually your choice, but the choice of the creditors. Although in 99% of cases the Nominee is appointed, it is important to understand that from this point onwards, the IP's primary duty of care then moves to your creditors - as it is the creditors who have appointed him/her and are effectively funding the costs of supervision.

This does not mean that the IP does not have responsibilities to you to ensure that you are looked after, and that your payments are maintained for the benefit of creditors. In Debbie's case, it does appear that little consideration was actually given to either her or the creditors in allowing the IVA to fail - but fortunately with an element of intervention this is now back on track.

[Soulgrowth]

Thanks for this interesting clarification Melanie [:)]

Debbie