Minimum dividend explanation???

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brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:34 am
Can anyone offer an explanation of this, please? This modification was written into my original Chairman's Report:

'Creditors will receive a minimum dividend of 63 pence in the pound, failure to pay the
minimum dividend will constitute a default.'

Unable to raise equity (35k) I have now been advised the way forward is to offer a further 12 months contributions in lieu of the equity. That would yield about £9000.

So there is thus no chance of the minumum dividend being achieved by extending my IVA for 12 months.

My question is how can the two things be reconciled? The modification clearly states that my arrangement will fail if the creditors do not get their minimum dividend, yet they will obviously not get it if, as has been proposed, I extend by 12 months in lieu of equity....

There was no mention of waiving the individual dividend modification in the variation proposal that is being sent to creditors.

I'm not at all clear about where this leaves me - or where it might lead. Any ideas? Similar experiences?
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:41 am
If this was my cvariation I would ask that the expectation of a minimum dividend also be removed.

Also, I seem to recall from an earlier post, there is a clause mentioning that if the variation fails so does the IVA. I would get that removed. It is an unfair conditon. In normal variation requests, if the variation isn't accepted, the IVA continues as before. So, why not in this case?
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IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:32 pm
On the minimum dividend - I have been told that the creditors will fully see from the proposal that, if accepted, they will not realise the minimum dividend. So, according to my case officer, it is kind of automatically understood and the clause does not have to be laid out specifically. If they don't agree, well, then they can insist on the minimum dividend being acheived, which, given that I cannot raise the equity, could leave me paying voluntary contributions for about 4 more years!!!! If that happens I am going to declare myself BR.

Re the potential failure of the IVA and my IP petitioning for my bankruptcy in the event of the creditors 'rejecting the meeting', whatever that means - that is how it was put on the variation proposal, clarification is being sought with the variation team. I really hope that this is not some ill-conceived attempt to pressure the creditors into accepting the variation in the knowledge that, as was effectively announced in the variation proposal, they will get rather less back in the event of my going B/R. Jesus, why can't it be simple??? I have done 4 years 8 months, never missed a payment, upped the payment for 22 months, not had a payrise for 2 years, not likely to in the next two either, house and car falling to pieces - and then, just when I hoped it would all finally be sorted out, back in marches all the stress and anxiety. I have now been told that this is in no way an attempt to pressurise the creditors, that the threat - or whatever it is - to bankrupt me in the event of the 12 months variation being rejected was inserted at the insistence of my IP, and that, should they reject the proposed variation, then a dedicated team exists to help me decide what to do next. I don't know what that means. I am all at sea with this now.
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

Michael Peoples

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Post by Michael Peoples » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:42 pm
There is no reason why creditors would reject your variation but I agree that there should be a resolution to remove the minimum dividend. This could potentially cause a problem after the extension has been completed as another variation would need to be called to sanction closure. It would be better to clear that up now.

If there is substantial equity in the property and bankruptcy would return more money creditors may ask why you cannot get some of it. There is a product out there that allows for borrowing up to 75% loan to value specifically to close down IVAs. Have you tried that option?
Michael Peoples | McCambridge Duffy Insolvency Practitioners
http://www.mccambridgeduffy.com
If you would like to talk to me about proposing an IVA or have any questions at all please visit www.mccambridgeduffy.com
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:43 pm
No Michael, I have not heard of that option. In the variation proposal that is going to the creditors it is stated that in all likelihood any money generated from my property in the event of bankruptcy will go to the Trustee. Is that another attempt to sway them in favour of the variation? I really do NOT like the way this is shaping up right now
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Michael, please could you point me in the direction of the product to which you refer above? Thanks.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

vince666

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Post by vince666 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:36 pm
My minimum dividend clause was removed as part of the variation to extend to a 6th year in lieu of equity release.
Completion certificate received 31 March 2012.
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:10 pm
Hi Vince666,

I think they generally are, but did it specifically state that it should be removed in the variation proposal that you put forward to your creditors? Nothing to that effect in mine.

I am absolutely floored by the insertion into the variation proposal by my IP of the condition that he will fail the IVA and petition for my bankruptcy if the variation he has suggested - 12 months extra payments in lieu of equity - is rejected. It just looks like an ultimatum to me, leaving me no way out if they do reject it.
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:12 pm
I am very miserable with this right now.

Everyone is saying that having come this far no one wants to see your IVA fail now, but it is not looking that way to me.

I really don't understand it.
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:18 pm
If there is 'no reason why creditors would reject your variation', as Michael suggests above, then why include this stipulation in the first place?
Last edited by brokebryn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

kazzafunk

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Post by kazzafunk » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:23 pm
It may be normal variation document phrasing as there is another thread where this sentence is mentioned.

I would query the minimum dividend issue with your IP if I were you, for peace of mind.
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brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:29 pm
Yep, I think the other thread was also started by myself. I asked them about the minimum dividend issue, they just said the creditors will realise if they accept the variation that they won't be realising it, so, effectively, why bother putting it in....
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:01 pm
Hmmmm ... bit lax that. If the minimum dividend is still in the agreement they could still enforce it if minded.

Would your IP take out a loan with his bank with the condition, "I agree to continue to pay the repayments, even after the loan is settled" on the understanding that it is abviuous that, once the loan is settled, payments should cease ??? I think not !
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

brokebryn

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Post by brokebryn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:05 pm
Well, if they don't take the minimum dividend clause out automatically by accepting the variation then I think that we shall all have our answer, won't we. If these people bankrupt me after all this time, either by rejecting the variation or by imposing additional unsustainable conditions, I don't know what I will do. It's as simple as that.
Last monthly payment made 3 June 2013 after 6 long years. CC issued 21 August 2013, but, er, lost in the post. Finally got it 17 September.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:07 pm
We shall all be rooting for you Bryn .. can you remind me -- has the date for the variation meeting been set yet ?
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
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