voluntary severance

[calshan]

Hi,
I applied for voluntary severance after missing last years round owing to the iva company not coming back to me with figures in time, just been rejected. I am gutted beyond belief.
The payment would have enabled me to pay off my debt in full and have £20k left in order to retrain. I work in the Police service and may now lose my job....
My iva is in arrears in relation to the additional payments even though monthly payments are made each month. I struggle as with the overtime (which is not guaranteed) invariably goes on paying for vehicle repairs / my children who are 6 and 16 as well as paying back family borrows during the month for unexpected bils etc. I have no assets or anything.
I have declared financial hardship to my force who advised me to take out a loan to pay the iva off (shows what they know about iva).
I was originally in a repayment plan for nearly 5 years believing it was an iva and am now in year 3 of the iva. Had a call from new IVA company (first verbal contact from them since takeover) pretty much demanding more money or iva fails and bankruptcy.
I now need to speak to them to try and come to some mutual ground however, so far they are not "friendly".
I have not got anyone to bail me out etc so not sure what to do next. I can't appeal the voluntary severance decision. Bankruptcy means no job.
Can anyone offer advice?

[Foggy]

If you constantly need to borrow from family from month to month then I would guess that your income and expenditure needs looking at and maybe a reduction in your regular payment. This, going forward, would allow you to make the contractual extra payments from overtime and not incur further arrears. As regards to the current arrears, ask if the IVA could be extended by a few months to make these up at the end.

[calshan]

Thanks, I previously mentioned to my old company I was happy for the IVA to be extended to the 6 year mark however on speaking to the new company, they stated they knew nothing of it.
I will be in breach regardless over the non payment of overtime, my employer will not help so I see the only option is bankruptcy. I am struggling to cope mentally now.
Does anyone know the implications of bankruptcy whilst in the police service?

[lifenoteasy]

With the police any form of "financial" hardship could result in disciplinary action.

If you went down the bankruptcy route worse case would be you lose your job.

If you IVA fails do not rush into this option.

Remind your IVA company that as you work for the police this has to be resolved otherwise you could face disciplinary with the worse case of losing your job - it is in no-ones interests for this to fail.

The problem you have is that you have not passed across 50% of any overtime earned - whilst understandable until that is resolved and the IVA company feel assured that income owing to creditors is being paid they will continue to play hard ball.

[Foggy]

Be proactive and offer to make restitution by way of an extension. Request that your I&E be checked going forward and explain that, with no assets to speak of, bankruptcy would be a futile course of action which would result in you losing your employment, so there will be no payments made AT ALL in BR, whereas, if the IVA is helped to limp home, the creditors will get a better return in the long run, as, indeed, will the IP.

[longslog101]

Could I suggest that given the gravity of the situation and the implications on you of the IVA failing that all correspondence with them is now in writing only (recorded delivery).

I would also suggest as has been said above that the income and expenditure is clearly not accurate enough to permit the viability of the renaming course of the IVA and that in all reality you expect the IVA will fail unless a new more accurate i&e can be agreed with creditors.

Also unless you had it confirmed I wouldn't be so sure that your VS scheme would have left you with £20k have you seen some of the topics in here for settlement figures when people get a windfall, the total amount repayable is considerably more than the debt due to IP fees and statutory interest being added to settlement figures.

I would put in writing that you are now at risk of redundancy and would like the Firm to put to creditors that all payments to date be used to complete the IVA as you are now at risk of redundancy, your income & expenditure is no longer accurate and the implications of the IVA failing will mean you will also lose your job due to requirements to declare your financial hardship to the employer and you not allowed to be in the job you currently hold where you could be vulnerable to blackmail/bribery & corruption (not saying you are as an individual but do know certain jobs do).

If they agree to do a new income and expenditure be sure to include absolutely everything, your recent bills of vehicle maintenance will be proof that this needs to be included.

Also as your overtime is not guaranteed (neither was mine) it should not be included as regular earnings, because the months you don't get it, you're going to be in the **** if the agreed monthly payment is based on you getting it.

Which firm is your IVA with ?

ps I'm no pro, but the above is the course of action I would personally take.

pps I would also add that the combined risk of the redundancy,
the stress from the failing IVA has led to significant stress, which as an officer of the law I presume you have an obligation to share with your employer if stress which is reaching a certain stage where you may have to do this and visit your doctor (who may prescribe medication) which could result in you being removed from duties and a further drop in pay (rather than something bad happening because you're already in a highly stressed state and the impact this could have on performance and perhaps an unexpected reaction - stress- performance curve - we all sometimes make bad calls when we reach too much stress it becomes a bad thing amd we go ive the top of the curve (google performance stress curve) and we react in a non optimal, possibly bad way, your job has you vulnerable like this because you are responsible for safety and people's lives and wellbeing - I know where your'e coming from).

Hopefully in a solid supporting statement the creditors may well see that this has all the markings of an IVA failure unless they agree to more lenient terms, for them to get a little is better than nothing, even then they may decide to close down the IVA as completed as it may still look like a potential failure in the future.

finally - if you do end up visiting the doctor and telling them all about it and being signed off due to stress don't be ashamed to include that in your communication to the IP firm. Your health is the most important thing and asking for help in confidence form your doctor is not a bad thing, obviously certain jobs you may have to declare it to the employer, yours may be one, but being healthy and getting help is better than where not dealing with the stress could drive you.

Good luck.

ppps - with it all in writing if the IP form don't respond appropriately you have evidence for complaint going forward, phone calls and you dont.

[calshan]

thanks for the advice, especially longslog101.
It is my intention to appeal against the VS decision however, I have a feeling that they will reject this too.
I have laid my personal circumstances down in full, the effect this is having not just on me but the family.
I shall submit this first thing in the morning in my appeal letter.
In terms of the settlement figure, I have been quoted £12k, which does not sound much however, I have been paying for 9 years over £200 per month. If further charges were to occur or interest, i would be asking for 12k to be used as a full and final.
I have held off taking time off for the last few years owing to the role I have, long hours sometimes and long term investigations, I didn't want to be held back or stigmatised.
The stress level is unbelievable, not work but personal which then impacts work owing to not sleeping, anxiety etc. I dip out of any social functions etc as I simply cannot afford to go.
I shall file the appeal, see if I get a response and in the meantime contact Cfix, though I don't have a case handler assigned. I shall complete a personal statement and also submit this in writing. I have previously requested contact only in writing however, they have called a couple of times, once when I was on a serious incident.
I am just about ready to go to the docs and occupational health too.
I shall keep you updated as to my appeal as I may need further advice
thanks again

[lifenoteasy]

Sometimes the only thing you can do is take time out of a situation for awhile.

I hope you get things sorted.

[longslog101]

Hi Calshan,

I have been reading your posts and story, jeez, talk a bout having been through the mill and trying to resolve this since 2006 !!

I really would be inclined to to write a full statement regarding your financial affairs since 2006 and detailing all payments made to creditors since then (and the £5k they increased it by ). given your current situation, your journey and what is clearly a very stressful situation I personally think you have committed more than any person should do to try and resolve your financial situation - 9 years !!

I do feel a well constructed statement of affairs as stands now, the predicament of failure and health issues and pending redundancy, combined with an appendix of the entire financial situation may be enough for the creditors to accept you have done enough. I certainly know reading your posts even if I was a creditor it is clear to see you have made a longstanding commitment to resolve your financial situation and need a act of goodwill as best outcome and a serious reduction in payments as worst outcome.

I wouldn't send your letter to some customer services bod, I would get on the phone and find out the name of the IP whose signature is personally responsible for your IVA and write to them personally.

Your first post on here says in 2006 you had debts of £29,000 - may I ask what you have made in total payments since then under the DMP & IVA ? For example if it was £200 a month every month for 9 years you would have paid £21,600. To start a statement with an opener along those lines demonstrates you have been committed to resolving the situation.

Perhaps I'm a bit of a softie but to me it seems you have grafted enough, perhaps one of the other IP firm representatives might suggest what you need to and if such circumstances can be presented to creditors and how you go about asking for all payments to date to be considered as enough to satisfy the IVA rather than it reaching a point of failure, at least then you know exactly what to write to your IP representative at credit fix, I'm guessing its for some form of variation.

Good luck.

[longslog101]

Ps I have to ask, when payplan recommend your DMP back in 2006 did they even suggest an IVA then or at any review point ? It would seem the advice they gave you was perhaps not the best which as a result means you find yourself in this current situation ?

[calshan]

Hi, been a long week to say the least.
Just to update, I have appealed the decision on VS however, this is doomed to fail owing to the position of my employer.
So, looking ahead, I have been assured that if the creditors apply for bankruptcy (not in their interest mind) my job is safe. That is a relief.
Secondly, I am exploring another option which is a full and final offer if I can secure a loan from the benevolent fund of £10k against my outstanding balance of £12k. This is a long shot, would be secured against my pension if I cannot repay it for any reason. Is this too much to offer for a F&F? The repayments would be from my pay with my present IVA payment being used as well as 75% of my overtime.
Thirdly, if 2 does not work, then I will have to put proposal together, extend the iva for a year and simply work my arse off.
On a personal note, I am moving teams to try and get more overtime, now on zopiclone and anti depressants and picking up emotionally at home so as to not affect the family.
I would consider the report asking them to close the IVA based on history/ funds paid but have not heard of anyone being successful on this...
Fingers crossed for the next two weeks in order to hopefully resolve things and thanks again for the great advice.
Longslog... I initially went with payplan as I was applying for an IVA, on the advice of the Police Federation....I thought I was in one however, it became clear later on, with my limited knowledge of IVA's that I was actually on a DMP. When I finally challenged PP they said that the application had been rejected for IVA so started me on the dmp and this would have been explained at the start, though with so much information and having never been in this position before, I don't recall this being explained.

[longslog101]

Cashlan,

Thanks for the update. So if I was in your shoes here is what I would do (I'm no pro but it would be my strategy)

1. You need to plan for worst case scenario, so find out amount due from not payment of 50% overtime. This = value "OT"

2. Create a new income and expenditure that does not include the sporadic unpredictable overtime. This will create your monthly surplus, payment figure for the remainder of the term.

3. Agree that any overtime you agree is payable at 50% for more than 10% earned (industry/IVA standard) however ensure this is only due at the end of the review years and not a figure monthly (if you trust yourself to to spend it and can save it).

Now, let's assume you have 2 years left on your IVA with no house equity to release or overdue payments, your proposal is pay the figure in #2 for the months remaining in your IVA. Now you also need to pay over your 50% of overtime above 10% normal salary that you haven't paid that they say is due! divide the figure (check they have calculated correctly) by the figure in #2, that will tell you how many months you need to extend your IVA by without putting yourself in hardship and able to service the continuing IVA.

That is the first bit you need to put forward and agree with your IP to put to creditors in your variation meeting, at present with your month to amounts including overtime that you don't get regularly is asking for failure.

Now work out what you would pay in that entire period x the monthly amount in #2. This will come to a figure, let's call it "total over remaining term"

Now I would ask for a separate F&F settlement figure based on a payment of "total over time remaining". This is better for the creditors becaue the IVA fees are less, and money today vs possible future failure is favourable. The F&F settlement amount would be from a loan your employer may be able to offer you if it is for full and final only. (Don't need to tell them the amount they are in total willing to lend if your "total reming figure" is less.

You want your variation meeting to address both these point at the same meeting with creditors, though it is possible if your monthly payment reduction to the amount in #2 is less than "whatever your agreement says your IP can adjust it by without going to creditors".

In your statement I would also say that your original surplus included overtime which is not regular and this is the reason for the variation and your hardship and there being less overtime available. I would also add that that you have now been put on to anti- depressants by your GP, and this is having a negative impact and possibly you may need to go part time in the future to cope with the stress, which would further reduce surplus.

Also mention there is the risk of redundancy which would mean your IVA may fail in to the future as there would be no surplus income for the reminding term, this makes hem even more likely to want to get the lump sum now. Worth mentioning that you may not hold your employment role if made bankrupt. All these things add up to the creditor preferring a lump sum.

Others may have other strategy but I would put all of that in a statement with your new income and expenditure and put it forward, remember becaue you have £12k left to pay doesn't mean you have today back £12k, you only have to offer what the remaining term of the IVA would have brought in, and on anti depressants you might struggle to do overtime too !!? Remember the offer of a lump sum payment would need to be reduced per month for each payment you make going forward.

Also in your statement include how much you have paid to date of the original debt.

Others may have other advice, that is just my layperson view of what I would do, once that is all done and dusted you can look at what happened in the early days once that is all sorted and see of payplan did indeed communicate properly with you or of your old letters said you were in an IVA, in which case you may be able to pursue that separately.

[calshan]

Thanks for this advice longslog. It is appreciated.
My employer checked equifax and the balance is £12k.
I have plenty of things to mention in relation to my health, so that avenue is covered!
I will need to check the total remaining over my term for IVA, however, I fear that the overtime I haven't paid over including the amount remaining will be in the area of £12k as it is hence I was thinking the £10k figure only if my employer agrees to the loan.

If not, then I will look at what you suggest here and ask for the figures you have mentioned.

I can draft the personal statement no problem and following your guide above, I will hopefully get a positive outcome.

I simply want to see the light at the end of the tunnel!!!!

Again, thanks for your advice and guidance, i'd be lost without!

[longslog101]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by calshan

Thanks for this advice longslog. It is appreciated.
My employer checked equifax and the balance is £12k.
I have plenty of things to mention in relation to my health, so that avenue is covered!
I will need to check the total remaining over my term for IVA, however, I fear that the overtime I haven't paid over including the amount remaining will be in the area of £12k as it is hence I was thinking the £10k figure only if my employer agrees to the loan.

If not, then I will look at what you suggest here and ask for the figures you have mentioned.

I can draft the personal statement no problem and following your guide above, I will hopefully get a positive outcome.

I simply want to see the light at the end of the tunnel!!!!

Again, thanks for your advice and guidance, i'd be lost without!

Just reading that and I think, hmmm not so sure, but when I read the whole of the thread and how many years you have been servicing the debt and the total amount repaid in that time, it paint a very different picture, so be sure to make it very clear that since day one over the course of the IVA and the Dmp (which you were lead to believe was an IVA) you have paid x thousand of the original Y thousand debt. I wouldn't be suprised if that number is huge, then I would go into the detail above and then close again with the same I have paid this much over this many years of the total debt, a sales pitch if you like.

As a creditor with this information and the £5k that got lumped on at one point I would be inclined to think, surely enough is enough this person has paid more in the £ than many others who have been discharged.

But I am maybe a bit biased. [:D] also, the reason I use wrong words is I am always in a rush and my ipad likes to autocorrect, I do apologise, hopefully you can decipher, I'm not dyslexic
..... Some of the thing my ipad has sent in email could have had me in an HR office lol [:p]

[lifenoteasy]

The real test would be let autocorrect change what it wants and see if we still understand#128516;