Upfront Fees

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indebtforever

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Post by indebtforever » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:41 pm
yes me too i spoke to thomas charles before i took the one i am with now i was to be charged 3 payments of £400 of which i never had so they tried to drop the fee a small amount.They were very polite etc etc but if your venturing down the iva road i wouldnt go with anyone that charges upfront for the service.
Last edited by indebtforever on Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

cfnc

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Post by cfnc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:47 pm
I think that the charging of upfront fees is why IVA's get a negative response and battering on other debt forums.

It appears to me from reading alot of posts here and on other forums the majority of people do not realise that IVA's can be done without upfront fees and in return this gives IVA's a bad name and some people who would benefit greatly from them are pushed into very long drawn out DMP's or bankruptcy.

I just hope that anyone who uses an IP or an intermediatry who do charge upfront fees are doing it because that is want they want to do and not because they think that it is the norm.

IP fees are reasonably high, for us debtors anyway, as we are in a difficult position and paying more than is necessary is in my opinion taking advantage of our situation.

Kirsty
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Cybus

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Post by Cybus » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:05 pm
Just reading through thie topic alone, I can see that there does not appear to be a set fee for this information gathering. I am curious how the fee is determined?

Why was one charges as little as £500 (sueann) and another as much as £1,200 (indebtforever). Why is it not a fixed fee?

I would assume the information gathered is much the same in each instance?

I assume the discussions had with each individual will be very similar in nature?

So why is there such a huge variance in fees? Are you simply determining the amoun of level of contribution a debtor could afford and then asking them to pay it to you for 2 or 3 months?

These days, in instances where funds are paid up front to an Insolvency Practitioner, they (Unless I am mistaken) have to declare the amounts paid to them either in the proposal or in the Nominee's Report. More often than not, you would then see a modification from the creditors saying that any funds paid to the Nominee prior to the meeting of creditors, are to be introduced into the arrangement for the benfit of creditors.

If you pay up front to an intermediary, those funds are effectively lost in the event of a proposal being rejected. Whereas if you had paid those funds directly to an IP you have a much better chance of having those funds returned to you in the event of rejection of your proposal. That said an IP would not be putting forward your proposal if it did not have a very reasonable chance of being approved.

If you use an intermediary, the IP still has to satisfy him / herself that you have been given an explanation of the options available to you and the advantages and disadvantages of each of those options. Again it is just my opinion but unless the intermediary and IP work very closely together, one is not going to know exactly what the other has said to the client other than what is on the 9 pieces of paper. So why not just go to an IP directly and save yourself what are in my opinion unnecessary costs?

Again it is just a personal opinion, but I disagree that having this information gathered by an intermediary cuts down on the lead time to a creditors meeting. The intermediary is gathering the same information as an IP. An intermediary is presumably going to have very similar discussions with the client that an IP would. If anything I see it prolonging the process since the IP then has to verify the information provided by the intermediary and as previously mentioned as to satisfy that best advice has been given.

So what is the difference? Well ... In sueann's case the difference is a saving of £500 and in the case of indebtforever a saving of £1,200, both of which are significant amounts of money.

sueann ... could you, if you have the time, please just note down on here what was actually said to you and why you feel you were not given impartial advice? Who decided that an IVA was right for you? Where you given explanation of the alternative solutions that may have been available to you?
Tell it like it is.
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:11 pm
couldnt agree more with cfnc

i consider myself pretty savvy in regards to financial services and products

But an IVA an near BR are completely different things. I was "sold" TC on the basis i had no chance of my IVA succeeding without them . I couldnt afford for that to happen hence i took the option.

I actually respect Oliver a lot for coming on here and making a detailed representation as for a while i thought TC were ducking some of these issues.

I will give them credit for being upfront about their fees, what they do etc etc, I just feel that i was told this was the only way my iva would be accepted and that the BR option was never even offered to me (even though i could never have taken it) I believe the person in my case no longer works for TC and so i would not like to blemish the work that they do.

Some people will always want their hand held a bit more than others and i think TC do offer a great service in this respect.

My personal grievance is a) i never knew i could do this all direct and b) the agent involved didn't give me all the options

As it works out it WAS the right option for me and as bitter as i sometimes feel for having to pay them money (not knowing i could go direct) it did put me on the course to fixing things.

I've been a big TC critic on here but mine is more of a personal complaint with the advisor involved.

Whilst i dont advocate people peaying money upfront i can appreciate that some people will find it worthwhile for that extra hand holding.

THis probably wouldn't be needed in the case of an IP like Melanie but a lot of people don't get anything like that quality of help, hence TC CAN offer the service.

Seems my argument has gone a full 360.. I personally don't believe i got value for money but i can see that they can help SOME people in the market.

Oliver, thanks again for your reply
Last edited by animaleyes76 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:21 pm
I agree with Animaleyes - fair play to Oliver for coming on here and posting the information. Like Animaleyes my grievance is more with my advisor (who also no longer works at TC as far as I know). I was never offered the option of BR and I didn't know what a DMP was until I found this forum! My advisor definitely wasn't available 7 days a week - they went on holiday and didn't tell me until they got back and finally answered my messages! I was referred to Accuma who were 200 miles from my home so I had no hope of being able to meet my IP - not that I knew that was allowed!

I'm sure TC do help a lot of people, and at the time I thought I was doing the right thing and getting the best advice, and the same with Accuma. It was only with that wonderful thing called hindsight that I realised that things weren't right.
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:21 pm
TC actually refund all fees if the IVA is rejected, one of the reason i went for all the "spiel" as it assured me that mine would be accepted.

You (cybus) are correct in that the amount paid to TC over 2 months is based on what the person can afford and in most cases is comparable to 2 months IVA paymenst
 
 

cfnc

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Post by cfnc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:25 pm
Sorry just reread replies ignore my response i am too tired to read

Kirsty
Last edited by cfnc on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kirsty
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:31 pm
I made 2 payments of £492 each to TC, which was a higher amount than my actual IVA payments
 
 

cfnc

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Post by cfnc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:32 pm
Did you get them refunded Skippy?

Kirsty
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animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:33 pm
Kirsty,

as you can read above i found the complete opposite and in my case i was glad as BR would have caused me a RIGHT load of problems. Whilst i was naive that i could go direct to an IP i DID know that IVA was my best route, DMP or BR were both hopeless.

My main point is that some people rely on these companies and trust their every word. THere will always be people in every company that do not do them justice.

Oliver has actually restored my faith in a company i felt had taken advantage, it didn't the agent involved did. Admittedly knowing what i know now i would recommend people go direct but i would also say that £900 etc may actually be worth it if you want that extra hand holding. Expensive hand holding admittedly but some people really need that. Not everyone gets an IP like Melanie or anything like the help she gives

Anyway, my final comment is "Hats off to Oliver for being upfront,truthful and having the balls to come on here"

A lot companies these days would hide/bullsh!t and despite the rights/wrongs of the service i respect his honesty
Last edited by animaleyes76 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

cfnc

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Post by cfnc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:40 pm
I am not saying that going to an intermediate is wrong, just that everyone should know all the facts and that they can go direct to an IP and not pay any upfront fees. If they wish through an informed choice to go through an intermediate or an IP that charge upfront fees then that is fine as long as they have all the facts and are aware of all their options.

But it is clear that this is not always the case. That is all I wanted to make clear.

Kirsty
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Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:42 pm
Hi
Oliver and Thomas Charles should be commended for giving such an honest and transparant response.
The case of upfront fees or no upfront fees will always be a hot topic.
Knowing what I do now,I wouldn't pay any money upfront to a third party,as many others have stated.However,many people will use the first company that they come across as they do not have the insight and knowledge that we do.If they come across Thomas Charles then I feel that they are in safe hands,yes there is a price to pay,but peace of mind with a bona fide company is,in my opinion,worth the cost.
Regards
Andam Davies
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:44 pm
No, I didn't get the payments refunded as my IVA was actually accepted.
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:45 pm
kirsty,

completely agree.
:o)

and also something i wish i had known!
 
 

animaleyes76

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Post by animaleyes76 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:46 pm
Andy, EXACTLY my thoughts
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