It would never occur to me to question fees I agreed to...and if I didn't read the paperwork then it's tough luck on me if I'm not happy! TBH, they were the last thing on my mind.
And unlike with BR assist firms, the creditors ultimately pay iva fees out of the write off (unless you are one of the few who repay all their debt in which case you are still getting b***** good deal vis a vis interest and charges the lendors would have applied).
MelanieGiles wrote:
Having read this thread this evening, I was in two minds whether to contribute, but just three points really from the world of an insolvency practitioner:-
1 Anyone who thinks that IPs who take on IVA work are greedy should come and see my accounts for my IVA business. Clearly these comments are made from complete naivety of this profession, and no wonder so many of my colleagues have decided enough fee cuts are enough and to concentrate on corporate insolvency. What other professions would agree to do work without knowing how much they were eventually going to get paid?
2 To say the IP gets paid before anyone else is a nonsense and again bodes from people who clearly do not know what they are talking about. The nominee's fee is a pre-contractual agreement with the debtor to pay for our services - perhaps in some similar way to the bankruptcy assist charges raised by Daniel's firm and others in that industry. The supervisory fee is drawn on a pro-rata basis to the funds collected - so when debtor defaults, IP does not get paid. Very simple.
3 It is true that generally around 40% pf IVAs do not run their course, but in some firms this percentage is far lower. It is also true that a far higher percentage of bankruptcy IPA and IPOs do not complete either, and that only around 10% of DMP cases actually get past the two year point. This compares with around 30% of loan and credit card balances which lenders anticipate will fall into default.
Debate is healthy, but I do wish that posters would be a tad better informed if they wish to contribute - especially those who claim to work in the debt recovery and management industry.
Melanie, I only have my own experiences to go by and in my case, the ONLY people to come out of the whole experience well were the IVA company and that would have been the case even if the IVA had run its course.
We paid in £11k and they took more than £8k of it.That is a fact.
I could have contacted my creditors myself and come to a better arrangement. Had I paid THEM £11k over the past 2 and a half years I would have paid almost half of my ENTIRE debt off by now and been completely debt free in another couple of years from now having paid back EVERY PENNY we owed.
We were advised against this and it's pretty obvious why. Whether it be companies offering bankruptcy assistance or IVAs, they are making a tidy sum out of it or they wouldn't be in business.
Yes - one swallow does not make a summer, and one bad apple rarely spoils the harvest if it is removed before it can taint its neighbours.
The basis of the IPs fees is agreed by you - the debtor - prior to entering into your IVA. This is a contractual matter, and the IP cannot claim fees which have been agreed by you intitially and latterly ratified by your creditors. Charging £8k against a total input of £11k seems pretty imbalanced, but at the outset of your case what were the total funds anticipated that you would pay in, and why did the IVA not fully run its course?
In my opinion, the role of the IP should not be to advise or recommend the best solution, but merely to offer the full range of solutions and let their clients make up their own mind which route is best. This is how we operate in my practice, and for every 10 enquries we take, this perhaps only results in around 3 IVAs. Had this occured in your case, there would have been no-one to allay any blame to, and perhaps in hindsight the IP who acted for you may be wise to review their internal process as well.
I will always fiercly defend our fees on this forum and in the wider public arena, and am very happy to debate this with both consumers and fellow professionals if the need arises.
There are many good IPs and companies out there and it's unfair that they get tarred with the same brush as the bad ones. Unfortunately the company I chose weren't good (I can't comment on the original IP as I never spoke to him) but I know there are many good ones out there.
Regarding IP fees, it always amuses me when people complain about them. Do they really expect the IP to work for nothing? I presume the same people would expect a lawyer or accountant to work for nothing as well...
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
i was hesitant to get involved in this thread,but here i am!
as you know we've JUST had our completion certificate& final report through. i understand the feelings on fees BUT reading our final report is very,very sobering[V].
we would NEVER have got the debts paid with the way intrest/charges were being added to accounts given our fall income. we were in way,way over our heads,drowning,un able to buy even food with £.
fee's must be paid or how would we have this service? given the level of debt that has been written off in our case fee's paid to our IP figure way down the list in our concerns! our final report is something i will never part with,something i will encourage my husband to re read if he's tempted by credit cards again.
without Mel's help to do a F&F IVA we would have no option except BR. personally,for me &my husband we've felt a lot of shame with the debt,that wouldn't have been any different for us if we'd have gone BR.
Nothing stays the same...everything changes..hang on in there!
godzilla wrote:
well its nice to see some proper discussions on this forum and by the way i never mentioned the words mis-sold on my previous posts.
Dont have a rant without reading first.
When i said "I'm still lost on this mis-sold stuff" i wasn't referring to your posts personally, just merely stating my views on the subject as these comments usually come up in similar threads.
If you read the forum you'll find many people claiming the same and as I said before "if you didn't read the details before signing" then you only have yourself to blame, rather than whinging that you've been screwed by your IP etc.
ps that was anything BUT a rant.. if you want i can do a proper one for you
In relation to fees I pretty much agree with Jan. Personally I couldn't care less who receives what. If the creditors are happy that's the main thing.It would be nice if more money went to creditors but as other people have said "people don't work for free"
If the creditors are happy with the return and I become debt free, than that's good enough for me.
Last edited by animaleyes76 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rosepetal wrote:
fee's must be paid or how would we have this service? given the level of debt that has been written off in our case fee's paid to our IP figure way down the list in our concerns! our final report is something i will never part with,something i will encourage my husband to re read if he's tempted by credit cards again.
That is the crux of the matter for me too, even allowing for the IP fees, it's still cheaper than debt management, and infinitely cheaper than the interest that would apply and I've made a decent attempt to repay my debt (looking at over 50% overall with DMP/IVA) It states in all IVA proposals how the IP fees will be distributed in relation with creditor repayments.
It's like all other services, you have to pay for them before you can benefit from them.
Final payment 1st April 2016.
Completion Certificate received 19th May 2016.
I have only just had time to read all of this post and basically this is about me only - I'm happy, couldn't tell you without looking about my IP fees, all I know is I'm in a much better place than I was pre-IVA. I wouldn't dismiss bankruptcy now I know more about it but upon entering the IVA it was a definite NO NO.
I like to be paid for the work I do and I expect to pay people who do work for me so fair all round I'd say.
IVA final payment left the bank on the 26th January 2013...looking forward to a debt free future.
To be fair there is a place for bankruptcy assist companies in the correct circumstances, I guess there are people in IVAs who shouldn't be but again I bet there are people in never ending DMPs who shouldn't be.
The infamous "IVA Council" did the bankruptcy assist market no favours I'm afraid
I do agree that there is a place for BR assist companies and there are good ones out there who don't need to trawl the Insolvency Register for potential customers.
That, in my opinion, is way out of order.
Sharing from experiences of dealing with debt
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively.
Bob Marley. http://kallis3.blogs.iva.co.uk
I also agree that there is a place for reputable BR assist companies who charge a reasonable fee for the work they do. I've heard of people being quoted around £3000, which seems a hell of a lot of money to have to find on top of the BR fees.
theres so many people got access to that register. i get twerps all the time ringing asking if id like them to manage my debt. they normally get the reply of hearing the phone reciever clicking
