need to smile today? go on check out my blogs - I'll add to them regularly
Our IVA's over YIPPEE unbelievable!Seems like yesterday it was approved despite everything
Tenon now telling me(once again) that they are "close to being able to release closures"...and it would be another "3 to 4 weeks"...exactly what I was told 3 to 4 weeks ago! I have expressed my dissatisfaction at this, and that I am reporting their lack of action on this forum.
They claimed that Tenon's policy was to "not release completions until creditors had received all their money"...having paid off what was agreed, I am now extremely frustrated at this attitude...
Last edited by loopfish on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would email Your IP at RSM Tenon direct and ask why they have stopped closing IVAs due to VAT again as they used that excuse for keeping mine open from May to september.
After an email to my IP I was told that the VAT department had told my IP that they could start closing cases again. That was back in August.
Hi
It is not very good customer service at all and I would hope that these cases get closed as quickly as possible so that people can move on with their lives.
Regards
Hi, I’m a little late to this thread but it has made very interesting reading.
I can understand why IP's have not been sure on how to deal with the VAT issue on cases that are close to completion. The problem has been there has been very little concrete guidance from either the HMRC or the regulators and any "advice" issued comes with a caveat that this is only advice and should not be relied upon.
As a result you have IP's speaking to different specialists and coming up with various opinions as to what to do. I myself agree that it is unfair on the client to have their completion delayed due to this issue. After all, it’s not the clients fault.
One thing that is not entirely clear to me is what happens to reclaimed VAT on closed cases? If this cannot be reclaimed then some creditors may not be happy that the IP closed the case before the VAT was refunded. Could the creditors then take action against the IP for the money they would have received? This appears to be a major reason why IP’s are reluctant to close cases. Other IP’s such as Melanie must have received advice to the contrary and are comfortable to close cases asap.
We need clear guidance from the regulators so that all IP's are acting consistently and fairly to the clients.
Yes, and having spoken to someone at VAT Consultancy ( http://www.thevatconsultancy.com/blog/2 ... aymex-ltd/ ) they did indeed confirm that any delay is probably down to pressure from the creditors to make claims on all open IVAs because the money would go back into the pot for the creditors. She explained once the IVA is closed, how can any refunds go back into the pot?
Just because the law changes on VAT - which was a completely ridiculous decision in my opinion in any case! - setting that aside, there is no reason why cases cannot continue to be closed. Unless creditors put their stake in the ground and formally advise IPs that they do not want the cases closed, then IPs should carry on as normal.
In discussions with my own regulator, VAT advisors and Counsel - it seems very unlikely that refunds on closed cases will be taken into account. And as IVAs are a contractual agreement with a set timeline - ie after the timeline has expired they no longer exist unless the contract dictates otherwise - I simply cannot see the argument for hanging on to them. I have held discussions with the majority of the creditor representatives, and advised them that I am continue to run my business as normal, and no-one has raised any objections.
well, I just received a letter from them stating that:
"Although the proceedings did not directly involve your IVA, the decision had implications for all insolvency practitioners throughout the UK.
Prima facie, creditors must benefit from the impending refund of VAT as it is they who ultimately bear the cost of an IVA (unless the debtor is able to discharge his debts in full along with the insolvency practitioners' fees and disbursements). The Supervisor can only conclude the IVA once creditors have received all monies due to them, and clearly she will not be in a position to declare a final dividend until HMRC refund the VAT. I now envisage that you should receive your certificate of completion within 28 days of the date hereof. I shall keep you informed if the time-scale proves unrealistic."
Also enclosed was a copy of the Paymex tier-one tribunal.
Varden Nuttall were competing cases but due to the uncertainty of reclaiming VAT on closed cases and having submitted the claim to HMRC we have temporarily stopped closing cases. We have a representative from HMRC coming in tomorrow so we are hoping to have an update then.
Have you submitted a claim to HMRC on active cases Melanie?
Yes we've submitted protective claims now in all three of our trading companies as the advice was to do so including the VAT on closed cases. I was chatting to the head of regulation at the IPA recently, and he was pretty sure that the advice from Counsel (who I also know very well) would be that it be accepted that closed cases be left alone. Would be interested to know what your VATman says - we've been taking advice from the VAT insolvency department of one of the big 4 and are fairly clear on the way ahead.
We were also tipped off by the IPA last week that it is very likely that this is coming to Trust Deeds, so my Scottish practice is now getting geared up as well for the storm!
Following the meeting this week with a representative from HMRC it seems nothing much has changed. They seem happy to progress claims on active cases but not on closed as they are awaiting a policy decision on closed cases from higher up the chain.
It also seems you were spot on regarding trust deeds Melanie. Received confirmation that PTD's are exempt as well.
With the confusion still existing with closed cases what would happen to any funds claimed on an active case that was subsequently completed before the VAT refund is received?
