Can anybody please help??
I was in an IVA that transferred to GT in 2011. I then reached an early full and final settlement in Jan 2012 and paid this immediately. I have now received a lump sum and the bank have sent to GT who initially, actually 3 times told me a refund to me was approved and then today have had a change of heart stating its a windfall and received in closure period and are refusing to give me my money back. What exactly in law does full and final settlement mean if GT can keep the ppi refund and just say it's received during closure period, regardless that 3 Mnagers have agreed approavl to refund
This is a tricky one to respond to on here, given the conflicting advice you appear to have received, and the fact that we don't know the exact terms of your IVA. Generally, it is viewed that the PPI monies are an asset of the IVA, regardless of whether it is concluded awaiting closure, live or actually closed - so I am afraid to say that on the balance of the information you have provided that it probably is payable into the iVA, but you may need to chat this through with your IP personally given the advice you have been given by the three members of his staff you have already spoken to.
Therms of the IVA required 50% of additional monies becoming available yet GT have kept 100% even after a full and final settlement agreement was reached by all parties who were quite happy on the date of signing the new contract. If a legally binding agreement is made and accepted by all parties, how come the Insolvency Practitioner can come back for a second bite of the cherry? Does a legally binding contract not stand up in a court of law. I am vigorously contesting GT actions and will post outcome here.
In the meantime there are a number of issues coming from this
1.If PPI has been missold in the first place, how then can the creditor include it in his claim against the debtor when entering into an IVA??
2.If a refund of PPI is made, thereby an admittance of wrongdoing on the lenders part is made, how then can the Insolvency Practitioner give it back to the wrongdoer? Surely there is a legal implication here. In essence the money that lenders have set aside to refund missold PPI is being recouped via the back door of an IVA, and they have lost nothing and not suffered for their negligent practises.
3. GT are viewing PPI as a windfall. Oxford dictionary confirms a windfall as, an inheritance, money won, or receipt of unepected money. If an individual makes a claim to PPI refund then the assumption is they are doing so in the full expectation of receiving that money back, so it can't be considered as an unexpected sum of money.
One final point to consider. When entering into an IVA why are lenders including PPI in their claim against the debtor. If PPI is removed at the outset as money owed to the debtor then the level of debt will undoubtedly reduce, and could potentially mean the difference between a debtor entering an IVA or not. A reduced debt could enable a debtor to meet regualr payments to the creditor as and when they fall due. Maybe it's time these issues were tested.
You talk about a F&F settlement being meaningless and going back for a second bite of the cherry...this is exactly the stance you took when you claimed ppi!!!!!
I totally agree with BoL. Had I not been in an IVA any PPI I received would have all gone to clear some debts anyway. I can't see a valid argument that someone in, about to close or awaiting CC has in bleeting that they deserve the money. The only case that I could understand is if the OP paid 100% of their original debt back. Maybe it's me! but it is my opinion and like it or not I have the right to air it. If you get it then great, but if the creditor sets if off against an existing debt then just suck it up.
Last Payment made 04/12/14. Completion Certificate 25/7/15. IVA company GT. No Issues
I don't believe PPI is classed as a windfall anyway, it is classed as an asset which is dealt with slightly differently in an IVA. The PPI would have been an asset known about at the start of the IVA or possibly from before and therefore becomes part of the IVA.
Also Julie, the PPI money is not being given back to the 'wrongdoer' it will be evenly distributed to all your creditors.
Julie, with all due respect, you have had an IVA agreed where upon completion a substantial part of the debt would have been written off, furthermore, you have had a F&F agreed which I envisage has reduced your liability further, I therefore feel it is somewhat greedy to then reclaim PPI for your own benefit, I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.
I do however, think GT appear on the face of it to have confused matters by miscommunicating to you how your PPI refund has been dealt with and I would be unhappy about that quite rightly.
I can understand people wanting to keep some of their PPI claim, as in an IVA you never seem to have any spare money to use as a back up and it would make things a little bit eaisier etc. And i guess you might feel as if its so close to you,you can smell the money.
BUT i really do feel people in IVA's should NOT look at this PPI as their money due to them. If your in a IVA and your gonna get some money paid to you through this PPI you just cannot expect to keep any of it.
Its like winning £7000 on the Lotto, playing by the rules you should pay everything into the IVA.You cannot expect to think they are gonna let you keep any of it.
I do understand how peeved off you can feel when you get three differant answers to the same question, that needs to be addressed.
But for me anybody in a IVA being able to claim PPI just forget it! If you dont claim it your creditors cannot have it!!
Sorry its a bit negative but there seems to lots of people on here getting their hopes up in keeping a few bob and sadly it does not work out like that.
Firstly, I would recommend that anyone considering entering into an IVA firstly checks out the situation regarding potential PPI claims in advance. If the claims are substantial, you could find yourselves not needing an IVA at all, if the money could be used to reduce existing debts.
Whether the reclaim of PPI monies is an asset or a windfall, really depends upon the wording of your own IVA proposal Prior to the advent of the IVA protocol in 2008, most IPs used their own firm's standard wording, and these can vastly differ from firm to firm - perhaps necessarily so due to the individual nature of this type of insolvency process. If the PPI claim is deemed to be an asset, the right to that asset asserts at the date the PPI was sold - and thus the asset is deemed to be an asset at the time the IVA was entered into - and thus the recovery of the asset must be made available to creditors.
I cannot really comment further on the facts of your individual case Julie, as I don't know the full terms of your IVA - however I note that you have sought legal advice and I will be very keen to see the outcome of this matter. At some stage I am sure this issue will be tested at Court, and this may bring some further clarity to these issues, although I think that most sensible insolvency practitioners will have already sought their own advice in advance.
Thans guys all comments welcone. For clarity, i'm not actually bleeting on about not getting my own personal ppi back, i'm just drawing attention to the pitfalls and for the record I asked Gt and their predecessor about claiming ppi in order to put into my IVA, not once but 6 times throughout the term of the IVA, Also my early settlement meant I did actually pay most back, I was lucky enough to come into sufficient funds to do so but most people won't be as lucky.Now can you understand the frustration of setting an asset before them and they overlooked it, and as my creditors all had a ppi inclusion in my particular circumstances yes they are being handed ppi back into their hands.
One last question.....well for now anyway. According to the bank who refunded my ppi and sent it to the IP, ppi refunds are taxable income. Who is liable to pay any tax due? Other recent blogs are suggesting authority is now extended to IP's making the claim I assume under something akin to Power of Attorney, and this may mean ppi claims being made to realise assets to put into an IVA without the individuals knowledge. Fine in theory if it's a means of paying the debt but, if as my bank say, ppi refunds are taxable
I think the rules need changing, so that everyone entering into an iva understands that ppi claims monies are shared between creditors, in fact i think claiming ppi should be made a requirement of entering into an iva.
As long as you have taken out PPI - we never did so would not be making a claim anyway.
It should be something that is asked at the start and, if you say there is none or you weren't missold, then you should have to sign a disclaimer so that once free of the IVA you won't pursue anything.
I, for one, will be glad when this whole PPI thing is over and done with.
