IVA company refusing to issue termination certificate unless I take out PPI claim. Is this legal ?

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Shining

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Post by Shining » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:27 am
PJL a good question how long before we are out of the IVA totally?
IVA final payment left the bank on the 26th January 2013...looking forward to a debt free future.
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:16 am
I imagine the IVA actually leaves your life once all that could be captured under it has been dealt with. PPI has been deemed to be an asset of the arrangement, so, until that has all been done and dusted, you are still under scrutiny. Anything that arises AFTER the date of the completion certificate should have nothing to do with your former IP.

In reality, I imagine they lose interest in you fairly quickly anyway, having more than enough to do keeping up with current clients.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:07 am
The continued trust is there to capture assets which were included in the IVA but not realised - such as potential PPI claims. Not all cases will have the continued trust, and if anyone needs specific clarity then they should read through their own IVA proposals or seek guidance from their IPs.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

David Mond

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Post by David Mond » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:15 pm
I apologise but this is a long response to catch up with posts upto yesterday - I am currently out of the UK.

Kieser – it may seem from looking at the forum that ClearDebt are holding off investigating PPI until the end of the IVA but that is not the case.

There is a huge amount of work required to be able to review each and every ClearDebt client’s case and I hope you can appreciate the logistics involved in recalling every hard file from storage, scanning, reviewing, interviewing clients, submitting complaints to creditors and having systems in place to track each case and recover money.

Given that the advice we have is that this is something we have to do, we are unable to issue completion certificates until all of the work has been undertaken and all compensation for PPI mis-selling has been realised.

This obviously creates a backlog of work and completions which need to be processed which we are working through as quickly as we possibly can.

Unfortunately, and with some justification, there are going to be a large number of disgruntled clients who are unhappy with ClearDebt.

We fully expect and hope to have reviewed all of our cases by the end of January – all of the requested authorities for mis-sold PPI will have been sent out this side of Christmas.

The confusion around the issue stems from different firms taking different approaches which in turn perhaps make ClearDebt clients feel as though they are being treated unfairly.

I believe ClearDebt are well ahead of other firms in terms of policy, practice, systems and processes with regard to PPI mis-selling and the difficulties we have experienced will soon be felt by other IPs who perhaps are not currently acting correctly or appropriately.

Given that all IPs seem to be in agreement that mis-sold PPI compensation must form part of the estate (subject to the proposal), it is my opinion that I am unable to issue completion certificates until it has been established that either there are no funds available from PPI mis-selling or that all compensation has been recovered.

It has been argued by some that I could rely on the Supervisor’s powers post IVA and issue completion certificates and subsequently investigate PPI mis-selling under the provisions of clause 14(1) in the R3 conditions and 10(6) in protocol, but these clauses are specifically designed to allow the Supervisor to act if information does not come to light until after the IVA has concluded – not to fail to fulfil the obligations whilst still in office (ClearDebt has also been advised by some creditors that they expect us to rely on these powers to go back historically to recover PPI mis-selling compensation for closed cases but this is perhaps one for another day).

ClearDebt have drafted a proposal which is currently with our lawyers which may enable us to look at issuing completion certificates earlier (which I’m sure will be mirrored by other firms if successful) but any movement on this will not be overnight.

In the meantime, I appreciate that a number of clients are going to be affected and each of them have my sincere sympathies. However, from my and ClearDebt’s point of view, there is nothing we can do other than to continue to clear all backlogs, deal with any complaints as promptly as we can and liaise with creditors in an attempt to deal with the issues which are being faced by every company within the industry.

Peejayel – to all intents and purposes the IVA ends at the point your completion certificate is issued. However, where you have repaid less that 100p in £ plus statutory interest your Supervisor (former) would still be required to realise any assets which should have been realised during the term of the IVA.

For instance, PPI mis-selling would need to be paid to the estate as the funds were realisable during the term of your IVA; a lottery win following the issuing of your completion certificate would not need to be paid in.

In the case of clients whose IVAs have had to be kept open purely for the purpose of investigating mis-sold PPI, ClearDebt are informing creditors that the only reason for the case being kept open is to recover this specific asset and that no windfalls, inheritance etc during this term will be paid to the estate.

Heretoday – as others have said, this is going to be best dealt with away from the forum. I will speak to Tom Oconnor today and organise the review as per the details of the case and Tom will contact you directly within the next 48 hours.

Muggins - there seems little point responding or indeed commenting to someone claiming I am unprofessional for responding to a point.

I hope the above helps.

David
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:34 pm
Thank you for your reply David! I was merely stating that as a professional you should steer clear from discussing an individual case on this forum! To ask for permission is really not appropriate! I understand you are extremely frustrated but you should be clear as you have above and contact your client privately! I am sorry as I do not wish to offend you, but under no circumstances would I as a nurse discuss a patients case even if they were not happy with their care!
 
 

Foggy

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Post by Foggy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:40 pm
Hi Muggins. I feel, in this case, that the client has made the details David has discussed public knowledge any case, as well as refusing to divulge anything more without specific consent.

There have been several requests to the client to refrain from bringing this up in open forum and discuss the matter off forum, but he feels he wishes to discuss matters in the opne -- this is the client's choice, not David's.
My opinions are merely that .. opinions based on experience. Always seek professional advice.
IVA Completed 23rd July 2013 .... C.C. 10th January 2014
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:00 pm
Hi Foggy! I feel that this forum will attract negative as well as positive feedback and comment! I do not think it is appropriate for an IP to retaliate in such a way! Sometimes as a professional no matter how hard it may be you do have to refrain from such! This is my perception and opinion! As I have said if a patient complained about the care I gave on a forum such as this I would risk losing my registration were I to respond as David and Tom has or would like to.
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:07 pm
Hi

I gues in a nutshell even if you and other IPs are correct in chasing mis-sold PPI it is at the severe detriment of the poor debtor who has fullfilled his or her part of the arrangement only to have the goal posts moved.
First we had the VAT issues holding up completions and now, far far worse, are these PPI issues.

One area that is not discussed or addressed is the financial reward for IPs/IVA companies for chasing claims, how can Joe Public be sure that this is not the driving factor ?

Regards
Andam Davies
 
 

David Mond

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Post by David Mond » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:10 pm
[quote]Originally posted by Foggy

Hi Muggins. I feel, in this case, that the client has made the details David has discussed public knowledge any case, as well as refusing to divulge anything more without specific consent.

Muggins - Foggy has it right - I'm dammed if I ignore the posts and I'm dammed if I respond.

Tom Oconnor will be speaking to Heretoday tomorrow, hopefully to agree what he has failed to communicate in all his posts - a level playing field is all that is required.

No-one likes to be criticised and I try (not always successfully) to sort out all problems and if ClearDebt gets it wrong I will be the first to apologise and if necessary offer restitution.

Let us see what developes.

David
Regards, David Mond, Insolvency Practitioner for over 46 years. Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year 2012, Personal Insolvency Practitioner of the year finalist 2013 & 2014 awarded by Insolvency & Rescue Magazine and 2015 finalist for Personal Insolvency Firm of the Year.
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:12 pm
Thank goodness for your comments Andy! It's what the majority would prob like to ask but dare not! I totally feel the same way! As for re opening of old cases that just simply is not acceptable and really hope that this is not going to happen!
 
 

Jamie.73

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Post by Jamie.73 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:15 pm
To Andy

It seems to me the PPI aspect will generate funds for IPs and it should. I meet 3-4 IPs running 50 -150 cases and to be frank they are mostly dropping them as they cant make money. The PPI aspect could and hopefully well generate cash so those smaller IPs can run a better service. I appreciate that those on forums like this run probably 1000`s and from what I can see on the market it is dominated by a handfull as the creditors have reduced the margins and hold most of the power. Surely its better to have more IPs able to and willing to offer the service thus improving it.
All views expressed are my own personal views. Without prejudice
 
 

Muggins

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Post by Muggins » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:15 pm
I do appreciate that David but contact the client in private! U should only do as you have above and explain the delay!
 
 

Heretoday

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Post by Heretoday » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:21 pm
Hi Foggy, with all due respect I would rather not discuss on a public forum what is a private matter.

I have literally exhausted every avenue open to me. I only brought this matter to the forum when I hit a stone wall with Cleardebt. I have gone down the complaints route and even sought legal advice which confirms that what Cleardebt are doing and have done are wrong (no doubt they will have legal advice that says what they are doing is right).

David and team keep trying to insinuate that I am somehow withholding information and as such you are only getting a one sided, distorted version of events.

To quote what I have said on another post to David:
“There can’t be many facts to my case that have not already been made available on this forum? If there is a specific point that you believe that I have omitted or withheld, then email me and I will post any missing information.”

This was posted 2 days ago; I have still not had an email asking me to post any missing information!

If and when David and team are able to issue my long overdue completion certificate then I will have no further reason to complain!
7 years after starting an IVA I finally received a completion certificate from ClearDebt
 
 

kieser

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Post by kieser » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
David,Thanks for your personal reply,unfortunately i still do not understand why Cleardebt do not look into the PPI investigations before their clients come to the end of their IVA.

I am a Cleardebt client & i am absolutely enraged that this has happened.(Ive complied fully with my IVA & now wish to get on with my life without delay)I do not understand how Cleardebt cannot look at their clients list & say something like."These clients are 6 mths from finishing their IVA so we need to contact them & get this PPI sorted before they come to the end of their iva so their Completion certificate is not delayed"

Perhaps im not putting my concerns over correctly but if i had been contacted about the PPI investigations 6 months before the end of my IVA & it had all been sorted before the end of my iva i would have no complains whatsoever & my life would not be on hold as it is today.

Surely there is something Cleardebt can do to ensure the PPI investigations are done & dusted before their clients pay their last payment.

This is not something that has arisen over the last couple of months (PPI),this has been out in the open for at least a year so please understand my personal frustrations for not sorting this out before i finished my IVA.

Perhaps something needs to be put in place to ensure that IPs have to do all investigations into PPI etc etc before there clients pay their last payment.

Many Thanks
 
 

Adam Davies

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Post by Adam Davies » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:24 pm
Hi Jamie

I totally agree that IP fees have been reduced to a point where it is not economical to propose and supervise them and hope that they can increase their income, however this must not be done at the expense of the debtor who has led a frugal existence for 5-6 years, paid his or her dues only to be slapped in the face at the finish line and told to go around the track until further notice.

This topic will be highlighted by myself on here and in the press until it is sorted out

Regards
Andam Davies
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