Witholding closure certificate!

[Foggy]

We each must do what we are comfortable with. Debtanator is happy with one particular route and we should respect that, whatever our own opinions.

[rbc1010]

Fair point Debtanator! I guess it all depends on how much is still out-standing with your creditors! It would be a damn shame if you had say a lottery win to a similar amount whilst PPI/VAT is being investigated.... & GT claim it after you completed your agreed terms & number of payments!!!!! As kittyface said - you didn't need to sign anything to allow GT to investigate PPI.
Just trying to help.

[Debtanator]

rbc1010 no problems at all

[Hayley.dl]

I agree with the suggestion made by rbc1010 - surely one or the other could be signed and that should be the end of it! More empathy is needed!

[Hayley.dl]

I am sorry, but any IP who wants to get their claws on the lion's share of a PPI or windfall after an IVA has been successfully concluded is, in my opinion, too money-orientated. It would be different if, say, the IVA had not been successfully concluded or was in danger of failing...

[Hayley.dl]

Also, I think that any PPI worth over, say, £5k should be declared to the IP whilst the IVA is in progress. PPI or windfalls at a certain rate should be capped. Anything between £2.5k and £5k: give half to the IP. Anything less than £2.5k should not have to be declared and left to the discretion of the individual. Some individuals could use to settle other, smaller debts which are too small to include into an IVA or DMP. Some IP's just don't seem to allow their customers a life outside of the IVA.

[Winston123]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by rbc1010


To cut a long one short - we too have now been offered a Declaration of No Claim to sign

Thank you again Winston123 - sharing the info you had re. the DONC has proved invaluable to our case and it's very much appreciated.

Fantastic news rbc,
I'm glad I have been of help to you [:D]
To all other sufferers of this delay debacle, I would suggest you try this route if your term of IVA has lapsed.
Follow this link, you'll find it most interesting if you are in the same boat :-
http://www.principalchambers.com/Portal ... letter.pdf
I forgot to mention earlier, I spoke to one of the PPI claims team last week as to why I hadn't sent back the PPI authorisation forms. I explained I was waiting for a DONC from GT and he said fine, PPI investigating is purely VOLUNTARY anyway ????
If it's voluntary, why is it neccessary to sign a variation to allow issuing of a CC whilst PPI is investigated for the clients who have made their final payment ? I can understand that people who still have months / years still to run on their arrangement could well benefit from a PPI payment to add to the pot, but for those of us who have fully paid up, what possible use is it other than for GT to keep our accounts open longer in the hope they can claim even more money for themselves. It seems that GT (and other IP'S for that matter), are hoping some clients come into some money that can be used to firstly go towards paying creditors, but ultimately, allow them to claim even more from us in fees before closing our accounts [V]

There is light at the end of the tunnel, just hoping that no one turns it off before we get there [:)]

[ivoriva]

From what I've read on the variation letter, they are basically saying legally it isnt definitive that PPI is an assett of the IVA, so the variation is to allow them to treat it as an assett of the IVA and that both you and the creditors agree to this and that it is managed in the way they set out.
Their arguement for this appears to be that it will almost certainly be decided that PPI is an assett, so agreeing to this variation allows them to treat it as such and therefore guarantee there wont be a breach (on their or your side). It will also enable them to deal with it post closure so you can get your cert without delay. As others have pointed out this also allows them to deal with VAT and potential other similiar 'assetts' such as excessive bank charges and the like. I didnt read anything that made it sound like they'd be coming after lottery wins or windfalls in the future, just assetts as described that were in existence prior to and during your IVA.
As others have mentioned, they are now definately accepting declaration of no claims forms in relation to PPI that you can request from them. This simply states to your knowledge you didnt have PPI and that you wont try and claim for this now or in the future.
So things are getting better at GT - even the variation document was actually worded in a quite friendly manner and they stressed that you could call them at anytime to talk about it. Quite frankly its ten times better than any communication I've had from them since my final payment and I've had helpful correspondance from both closures and customer services on these matters so things do appear to be getting sorted. Here's hoping anyway! These are just my thoughts, so do make sure you read any such document you receive and make your own opinion before signing!

[kittyface]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Foggy

We each must do what we are comfortable with. Debtanator is happy with one particular route and we should respect that, whatever our own opinions.

Am completely happy to accept whatever route people want to take, as long as they aren't under the impression that they HAVE to do something that they don't have to do which seems to be what they are being told. If Debtanator (and anyone else) is happy, that's all good for them.

[rbc1010]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by ivoriva

As others have pointed out this also allows them to deal with VAT and potential other similiar 'assetts' such as excessive bank charges and the like. I didnt read anything that made it sound like they'd be coming after lottery wins or windfalls in the future, just assetts as described that were in existence prior to and during your IVA.

May I just point out - I have been officially informed by GT staff that inheritance/lottery wins are deemed as windfalls and are most definitely seen as assets in relation to your IVA and therefore would have to go into the 'pot' (up to the total amount of debt which is still outstanding with your creditors) at any time in the future UNTIL you are in receipt of your CC...!!!

[ivoriva]

Yes this is their stance, so getting the closure cert is all important. So in my opinion, all the recent developments are good news (IE declaration of no claims and the varitation) as it should mean there are no more delays with issuing a completion cert. Obviously if the IVA term has run its course and the CC hasnt been issued in a timely fashion then I would think there are legal grounds to challenge paying windfalls (if they arised) in the interim period - especially those that have waited 12 months or more!

[kittyface]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by ivoriva

From what I've read on the variation letter, they are basically saying legally it isnt definitive that PPI is an assett of the IVA, so the variation is to allow them to treat it as an assett of the IVA and that both you and the creditors agree to this and that it is managed in the way they set out.

Ok, I'm just curious here - What do you think will happen to people who have already had their CoC? If things such as unfair charges, VAT etc are discovered in the future, what will happen to the many people who had their IVAs completed before the mass variation took place? Will they be in breach of their agreement or will GT be in breach for not confirming this before closure (even though in many cases it won't have existed?)

It seems that once the IVA is completed and the certificate issued, they can legally follow up *anything* that could be constituted as an asset before/during the time that the IVA was active, so I am not sure what these T&Cs will cover.

Unless it's something to do with the above - does GT think that if the closure certificates are issued they will be told that they have to leave any unreclaimed assets be, and therefore they will be in breach?

I'm interested in what you guys think.

[rbc1010]

I think possibly an Insolvency Lawyer may be the only person that could shed light - FACTS - on the mass variation subject!

I'm also thinking that what Winston123 stated, referring to the amount of agreed monthly terms your IVA would not exceed (usually 72 months) then this should stand! Your IVA should not exceed 72 months and you should receive a CC with immediate effect!! (Up to 6 months in GT's) case. THEN YOU ARE DEBT FREE!!!!

Surely this was the whole point of an IVA..... so that there was a light at the end of the tunnel for all those who were struggling at the time they took out the IVA!!! An IVA is NOT a life sentence.... surely???

[Debtanator]

once certificate is issued your obligations are fulfilled iva is finished and therefore how can you be in breach

[kittyface]

Exactly Debtanator - so why am I obliged to follow up PPI once I have my completion certificate. Under that rationale I can't be in breach and so the IVA can't fail. But I'm told that's not true & that I have to allow them to chase the PPI claims?

It just seems that the receipt of closure certificate isn't the golden goose everyone seems to think it is - you can still be chased (allegedly) and forced (allegedly) to discover assets you didn't know you had - and all without a variation to original T&Cs.

I've just read your post on the other thread - I think you're absolutely right!