Hi, I wondered if I could ask for some advice please about clearing my IVA with a lump sum ?

[dodgymonkey]

Hi, I wondered if I could ask for some advice please? I don't know if this is right?.
sorry for the long question!!

I have got the opportunity of going self employed (with a franchise) which is fantastic for my career and its something i have always wanted to do and finally can but they advised that I cant proceed until I clear my IVA.

AI have been offered me a lump sum to help clear the IVA to allow me to proceed but on speaking my IVA consultant it seems rather complicated to in order to do this.
1. I need to provide a letter stating the amount and reasons as to why I wish to put forward a full and final offer.
2. I will be required to complete and return an income and expenditure form, along with a copy of my latest months wage slip, bank statement evidencing all utility bills and a copy of your latest P60. (even though I did this 3 months ago!!)
3. My family member is required to provide a letter stating how much they wish to put forward in full and final, a copy of the bank statement where the funds are being held, a copy of their driving licence/passport and a utility bill.
4. They will then assess my income and expenditure and forward my requests on to the Supervisor.
5. If the Supervisor gives the go ahead, my family member will then need to pay the monies into a holding account that does not earn any interest.

6. I will then be contacted on the 28th day to let me know the outcome.

7. If accepted the monies will be transferred across into my IVA estate and will be distributed to creditors accordingly upon completion of the PPI investigation which i have been advised could take up to 1 year to complete

8. My arrangement will be set to pending completion until the PPI investigation has been completed and monies have been distributed to your creditors.

[2year2go]

Wow, you'd have though it would be an easier process to clear! How long have you been in your IVA?

[ClareSilver]

This sounds about right, however usually monies gifted are not required to be paid until the variation has been approved, however proof of the monies are required before meeting. However, every IP has their own ways of doing things.

12 months for an IVA to complete seems very long - it really shouldn't take longer than about 3 months (this is the standard housekeeping period). In the F&F variation meeting your IP can always request to close your IVA whilst the PPI investigation is ongoing - I can't see why this can't be done.

If you've just done an I&E, then I don't understand why they need another, unless your circumstances have changed. Have they asked you do an I&E based on your projected earnings for your new business venture, this could be the reason why.

Why not ask to speak to your IP direct?

[MelanieGiles]

Also remember that it is your right to put forward a variation of terms, and not something which your IP will either allow or disallow - so not too sure about the comment about your Supervisor giving the go ahead.

12 months to conclude a PPI investigation and pursue claims is very realistic. If it has not yet been started, it would be impossible to conclude this in three months if there were claim to pursue.

[mike523152]

I'll give you the benefit of my own experiences, firstly have someone legal look at the wording of your offer of "Full and Final" settlement, i have just come off the phone with Grant Thornton to be told that despite having made an offer, had it accepted and paid in May 2012, full and final only relates to the monthly contributions on your account, i.e. you agree to make payments of £ 600 per month for 5 years, the total amount you will pay is £ 36,000, you decide you want to settle early, so you offer £ 20,000 and they accept, you pay the money and that's the end of it, no IVA and you can look forward to rebuilding your credit record and get on with life. Sorry that's not the case, they tell me they can still pursue me for money obtained from undisclosed assets or windfalls even after completion. Maybe I am wrong and completion is completion, but in order to ensure completion is complete they simply delayed issuing the Certificate until such times as they had made up there minds regarding what they were going to do about PPI. So back to my original point, please make sure that your offer of variation is watertight and there can be no come back after you have settled.

[Foggy]

Sorry to argue the point, Mike, but in any event if there are were anything that should have been declared/ disclosed and you, for whatever reason, decided not to do so, then you will have failed your obligations under the terms of the arrangement and the IP is quite correct in going after these failed assets -- regardless of a F&F, which is generally made on the understanding that there are no undislosed assets / windfalls and the like.

It would be a very foolhardy IP who didn't check these things before the issue of a completion certificate.

I doubt you'd ever get a F&F worded so as to absolve you of your agreed responsibilities.

[mike523152]

Yes but the argument being used by the IP is that by not disclosing PPI we would have actively sought to deceive by not declaring an asset that should of been utilised for the benefit of the creditors. Unless we were already actively pursuing PPI claim back at the outset of the IVA or we commenced proceedings to claim it back during the IVA, then it was and still isn't an asset or a windfall. Now my point remains the same and the advice I gave does not change, unless you can 100% verify without any question exactly what "Full and Final" means and when under the terms of the IVA it is actually completed. More importantly, the point is not to do with who is entitled to PPI, far from it, the point is simple, when is an IVA considered to be legally complete and if you are proposing to make a "Full and Final" settlement it is extremely important to know this, perhaps no one can answer, no one has answered it to my satisfaction so far.

[Foggy]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by mike523152

Yes but the argument being used by the IP is that by not disclosing PPI we would have actively sought to deceive by not declaring an asset that should of been utilised for the benefit of the creditors. Unless we were already actively pursuing PPI claim back at the outset of the IVA or we commenced proceedings to claim it back during the IVA, then it was and still isn't an asset or a windfall. Now my point remains the same and the advice I gave does not change, unless you can 100% verify without any question exactly what "Full and Final" means and when under the terms of the IVA it is actually completed. More importantly, the point is not to do with who is entitled to PPI, far from it, the point is simple, when is an IVA considered to be legally complete and if you are proposing to make a "Full and Final" settlement it is extremely important to know this, perhaps no one can answer, no one has answered it to my satisfaction so far.

OK Mike. I know where you are coming from with your opening sentence and (my opinion only) this arguement would not hold water if challenged. The possibility of PPI was not in the mind of the IP (the Expert) at the time the IVA was arranged, therefore it would be difficult to argue that it should have been in the mind of the debtor (lay person) at the time.

Whether you were actively pursuing or claiming PPI at the time is irrelevant --- it is potentially an asset, and that potential has to be investigated. The fact that the potential existed during the IVA is enough for them to lay claim to it.

Even if you make a "Full and Final" the IVA is in no way considered to be complete until the Certificate is issued and you are still liable to hand over any inheritance / windfall / asset you become entitled to between acceptance of the Full and Final and that certificate. That said, many IP's recognise the spirit of a full and final (or completion of the agreed term) and absolve you from NEWLY acquired assets / windfalls / inheritances (that is after the last payment / F&F agreement).

There is no definitive answer until such things are tested in a court of law and precedence set, which has not happened. The only current precedent is that of a Gallagher Trust, which, it has been determined in court, allows the IP to continue to act as a trustee after the cessation ( by whatever means) of an IVA. Thia allows them to deal with assets / windfalls / inheritances that existed PRIOR TO OR DURING the term of the IVA, which are unresolved at or come to light after the IVA is finished.

Any windfalls / inheritances which come into existence AFTER that issue of the Completion Certificate are outside of the reach of the IP.

[dodgymonkey]

Hi All,

Thank you all for you answers - thats really helped me get a perspective on this - I will call DRSP (the people assigned to deal with the PPI claims) and see where they are in terms of their investigation and speak to the IVA consultant about setting the ball in motion! fingers crossed!