Green Deal

[nickjohn]

Does anyone have any experience of the new Green Deal being promoted by the government and how it works for those with IVA's.

For those who have not heard of the green deal:

You pay £100 to have an inspection done on your home to see how efficient it is and to see if any improvements can be made to save on gas and electricity e.g. new front door, double glazing, new boiler, insulation etc etc.

The inspector then works out how much a year you could save if you had these improvements done, lets say £500 a year saving.

Once this is done you can then get a quote for the recommended work off a registered company.

If you have the work done you pay no money to the contractor they get their money off the government, what happens is that the amount you would save, say the £500, is added onto your electricity bill each year until it is paid off. Theoretically as you will make an energy saving this should be equal to the amount added onto your bill each year so you should be no worse off.

They promote it on the basis that anyone can take part even those with bad credit, BR etc etc.

My questions are, as the repayments form part of your energy bills would you be able to allow the full amount in your I&E and would you need to notify your IP about entering into such an agreement??

[UpToMyNeckInIt]

Hi nickjohn,

I have heard of these schemes, and yes, insulation work is covered by government grant in many cases.

However, I would hesitate to put £100 up front.

You can usually obtain the advice for free from your local council (many employ home energy officers etc) or even your gas/electricity suppliers.

Even insulation installers will often quote the grant-aided price, as they deal with the government direct to get their subsidy back.

Simple insulation / energy saving measures such as a decent layer of loft insulation, cavity wall insulation and energy-efficient bulbs will pay for themselves in 1-2 years in energy saving, and it is sensible to get those done accordingly.

I got grant-aided cavity wall and loft insulation 6 Years ago on a government grant-assisted scheme for £250, and that's to inulate a 3-Bed. Semi in West London. (I did not have to pay a £100 up front fee though, but I guess times have changed).

Things like: new boiler, double glazing, solar panels etc. however, have a much longer payback period: typically 10-20 Years. So don't be fooled into getting this stuff (unless you can wrangle it for a heavy discount), based on energy saving alone.

So it should be easy to present your case for the cheap, but effective measures to your IP (particularly as these will have an immediate positive effect on your energy bills), but don't be surprised if they don't allow for the boiler, double glazing etc.

[nickjohn]

Hi, The whole scheme is run by the government and they are the ones who say about the £100.

They stuff I have read on the government web site basically says that whatever you have done they add the cost onto your electricity bill until it is paid off, the debt actually stays with the property so if you sell the new owners take over the debt, or you can pay it off in a lump sum. The most they can add on to your electricity bill is equal to the amount of savings you can make, so if they say new windows and boiler will save you £500 per year then this is what you pay on your bill.

As it is aimed at everyone and under written by the government there seems to be no problems with having a bad credit history.

I understand that the IP might not be keen on you doing the work but as it should not increase your expenditure (the saving on energy costs is off set with the repayment) and is covered within your elec bill would they have to know, or should you tell them??

https://www.gov.uk/green-deal-energy-sa ... deal-works

[winter_blues]

I had a look at GreendealGB and they advertise no credit checks but its along term commitment that isn't getting about favourable press. Look into it carefully.

I looked into solar panels before and would like a new boiler but need to research this further ...

[Niobe]

Don't forget that this is effectively a loan and, as far as I am aware, it will transfer across to anyone buying your house so you might have a problem there.

[nickjohn]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by winter_blues

I had a look at GreendealGB and they advertise no credit checks but its along term commitment hat isn't getting about able press. Look into it carefully.

I looked into solar panels before and would like a new boiler but need to research this further ...

A friend of mine installs solar panels, the photovoltaic ones. He feels that the quality of the systems fitted is not strong and that there are some systems out there that will struggle to work for 12 - 15 years let alone 25 so any investment may not be that good long term. I also know someone who was "persuaded" to install water solar panels and he gets enough hot water for one shower a day so is not impressed..

If the government keep investing in wind turbines and the like the best form of heating will be to use electric boilers in place of gas ones. We have installed a few and they are a lot simpler than traditional gas ones and when viewed over a 10 year period work out quite competitive..

[nickjohn]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by Harpic

Don't forget that this is effectively a loan and, as far as I am aware, it will transfer across to anyone buying your house so you might have a problem there.

Hi, yes I realise that but there is also the option to pay it off in a lump sum should you want to sell, I was looking at it on the basis that any improvements made will make the house more attractive when I do come to sell and as there is no initial up front money don't mind paying for it at the end when the house sells.

[Skippy]

And don't forget that the loan could last longer than the new boiler! If anyone takes out a 20 year loan it's unlikely that a modern boiler will last this long.

Personally I think it should be compulsory to clear the loan if you sell your home - I wouldn't buy a property with someone else's loan attached to it!

[luluj]

I agree Skippy - why should new homeowners have to fork out for the boiler !

[Skippy]

Especially as it might have packed up by then! I think it could be a good idea in principle but, like most government schemes, has been badly thought out. The loans shouldn't be as long for a start and should have to be cleared on the sale of the property. And I certainly wouldn't want to fork out £100 (or more in some cases) just for an assessment!

[UpToMyNeckInIt]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by nickjohn

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by winter_blues

I had a look at GreendealGB and they advertise no credit checks but its along term commitment hat isn't getting about able press. Look into it carefully.

I looked into solar panels before and would like a new boiler but need to research this further ...

A friend of mine installs solar panels, the photovoltaic ones. He feels that the quality of the systems fitted is not strong and that there are some systems out there that will struggle to work for 12 - 15 years let alone 25 so any investment may not be that good long term. I also know someone who was "persuaded" to install water solar panels and he gets enough hot water for one shower a day so is not impressed..

If the government keep investing in wind turbines and the like the best form of heating will be to use electric boilers in place of gas ones. We have installed a few and they are a lot simpler than traditional gas ones and when viewed over a 10 year period work out quite competitive..

You are right about solar panels and wind turbines - all rubbish at current prices.

Be wary of electric boilers as well. I do some work with the Building Research Establishment, and last I heard was that electric heating - in whatever guise, is (and always has been) extremely expensive.

Simple rule of physics: The amount of energy required to heat your home is the same whether it is supplied by gas or electric.

So with the best gas prices coming in at just under 4p per kWh, and the best single tariff electric prices at around 12p per kWh, swap a gas boiler for an electric one, and your heating costs nearly treble. Even if you said the new electric boiler was near-enough 100% efficient (which it is not) vs your old outgoing gas boiler at say, 50% - the electric cost is still twice the price.

It explains why our monthly gas and electric bill for a 3-Bed semi, is near-enough the same amount as our all-electric one-bed flat.

Just my opinion though.

[nickjohn]

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by UpToMyNeckInIt

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by nickjohn

font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:<hr height="1" noshade>Originally posted by winter_blues

I had a look at GreendealGB and they advertise no credit checks but its along term commitment hat isn't getting about able press. Look into it carefully.

I looked into solar panels before and would like a new boiler but need to research this further ...

A friend of mine installs solar panels, the photovoltaic ones. He feels that the quality of the systems fitted is not strong and that there are some systems out there that will struggle to work for 12 - 15 years let alone 25 so any investment may not be that good long term. I also know someone who was "persuaded" to install water solar panels and he gets enough hot water for one shower a day so is not impressed..

If the government keep investing in wind turbines and the like the best form of heating will be to use electric boilers in place of gas ones. We have installed a few and they are a lot simpler than traditional gas ones and when viewed over a 10 year period work out quite competitive..

You are right about solar panels and wind turbines - all rubbish at current prices.

Be wary of electric boilers as well. I do some work with the Building Research Establishment, and last I heard was that electric heating - in whatever guise, is (and always has been) extremely expensive.

Simple rule of physics: The amount of energy required to heat your home is the same whether it is supplied by gas or electric.

So with the best gas prices coming in at just under 4p per kWh, and the best single tariff electric prices at around 12p per kWh, swap a gas boiler for an electric one, and your heating costs nearly treble. Even if you said the new electric boiler was near-enough 100% efficient (which it is not) vs your old outgoing gas boiler at say, 50% - the electric cost is still twice the price.

It explains why our monthly gas and electric bill for a 3-Bed semi, is near-enough the same amount as our all-electric one-bed flat.

Just my opinion though.

I agree on the costs front, however, if you have an all electric system using night storage heaters then converting to a wet electric boiler system will give far more flexibility and be cheaper to run, night storage heaters must be the most in efficient way of heating a home and you have to think a day ahead all the time and if you get a sudden cold snap then you have no way of heating your house....

[UpToMyNeckInIt]

Got to agree with you on those last points. Whenever I do a home energy survey, everyone with Economy 7 moans that the heat runs out at around 3pm.

Believe it or not though, the Government still class E7 as an 'efficient' heating system. Great in theory: the powered phase is during your 'off-peak' night rate, releasing the heat throughout the following day.

If you are 'all electric' anyway so to speak, then it might be worth looking into.

I've got to say though, I don't see many installed (electric boiler heating systems make up less than 1% of UK systems): Yes, your new system will give you flexibility, but presumably that means using it more during the peak-rate. So again, I advise working out how much you will be using those day units before taking the plunge.

You might find merely improving insulation initially, just retains that much more heat towards the end of the day with your existing E7. Well worth a chat first with the Council's Home energy officer (or someone with a similar title - they are usually based in your Council's Housing/Environmental Health Department), before spending your hard-earned cash.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.