REGIONAL TRUSTEE

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fudge34

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Post by fudge34 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:20 pm
Hi there everyone
Happy newish year if I haven't already said it. I had a letter today (had almost forgotten I had been made in BR in Sept) saying that my case had been passed to the Regional Trustree and liquidator for the region. Stating that he would deal with the assets remaining in my estate and payments that may be made to your creditors. Feel completely wrong-footed as I didn't know this was going to happen!
We are still waiting to find out about the house, we got the house valued in November (my husband is intending to buy my BI) and we haven't heard a thing since ... am beginning to panic now
We owe 146.000 on our mortgage, the house was valued at 160.00 and we have a penatly charge of 4.000 for moving our mortgage (early redemption penalty which the OR said we cannot claim as part of the BI and we must pay this) I am NOW SERIOUSLY STRESSED keep wondering when we will hear about the BI and whether they will take account of the fact that we have a child under 5 and the latest house prices crash
oh I wish I could win the lottery
 
 

pm.e

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Post by pm.e » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:38 pm
Hi there,

Happish new year to you as well.

First things first, did you have 3 valuations or just 1? and who instructed the valuation?

Secondly, I understand that the true value of the property would be the sum of all mortgage charges against the property minus the average of the 3 valuations (hope that makes sense).

If you had negative equity, this could be bought by your husband or close family member or friend for a £1

In the event that there is a positive value, say £10,000 then I suppose the Official Receiver can ask for £10,000

Hope that helps,
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Based on your above figures, and my assumption of joint ownership, the equity figure is £7,000 but the OR will not allow the early redemption penalty to be used in the calculation. How much is this?

I suggest that you advise the RTLU that you wish to see the transaction effected as soon as possible and that there are funds available to do this. They will not want the case to hang around for too long either.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

fudge34

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Post by fudge34 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:28 pm
Hi there
thanks for the reply all and happy new year to your Melanie, hope all is well. Yes its 7 grand, the three valuations we had done all came in at 160.000 and the early mortgage redemption policy is 3.950 (which is stated on my latest mortgage statement under if you were to pay off this mortgage early it would be blah blah) if they were to take this off it would obviously really bring down the figure of BI and make our lives alot easier, as it is, my husband will have to take out a loan to buy out my half but it seems absurb to give up our family home for 7 grand at the same time when rents in our area are the cost of a mortgage plus we want to keep the house in the family for our daugther. Is referrel to the regional trustree common? it makes me worry that I have done something wrong or that I am going to get a BRU - I was hoping for an ED !
 
 

fudge34

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Post by fudge34 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:29 pm
Ps and meant to say that this was the OR view on the early mortgage redemption amount when I asked in my offical interview when i was first made bankrupt but since then I have heard lots of differing opinions about that they usually do include it into the BI amount
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:36 pm
It is quite normal for the RTLU to deal with cases like yours Fudge, and I am sure that you will find the staff there very helpful. Nothing to worry about at all, and nothing sinister to read into the referral.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

fudge34

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Post by fudge34 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:45 pm
Thanks Melanie again your calming virtual presence has made me feel better! do you think its possible for me to argue with them re the mortgage penalty? it seems unfair that if we were to pay off our mortgage tomorrow we would be expected to pay that amount? do you think they would take into account the fact that we have a child under 5 and the current house market conditions, I guess what i am asking if whether I am able to haggle with them a bit due to the current economic conditions and if they were to sell the house they would barely make a mark in my debt anyway - or am I being overly hopeful and should go along with what they say?
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:48 pm
Sorry Fudge - I don't think they will budge on the redemption figure but it is always worth a try. Is it worth getting an alternative valuation now, as house prices are falling in certain areas, and it may be that yours has also been affected.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

fudge34

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Post by fudge34 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:53 pm
Hi
I might give that a go - not sure how much they have fallen by in our are and whether this would be enough of an amount to make a difference, I think I need to face up to it, take a deep breath and call the regional office this week and ask what they are doing, If it is seven grand then so shall be it, I would rather pay that well let my husband pay it and then pay him back than be left without a house, I know i am lucky and that I could be alot worse off just feel that I am getting to forget about being BR and then I realise that its still hanging over me - but thank god you are here to help us all!
 
 

michelle.l

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Post by michelle.l » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:06 pm
Hi Fudge34 and Melanie,

Hope you are both well...and Happy New Year to you both, not been on here for ages, wanted to get a bit of normality back into my life!!!

Anyway just wanted to say I really feel for you fudge we are in exactly the same boat as you. Hubby and I went BR on 4th Sept 2007, and are still waiting to hear from the OR what they are doing about the house! I estimated our equity was roughly £17,000 but wasn't asked to get any valuations done!!! Does the OR do this or what??? We also would have early redemption fees of £3,000 to pay!

Anyway low and behold we received a letter the other day to say we have been discharged early (25th Jan 2008)...yippee!!!

But still no mention of the house and the letter was from another OR's office not the one we originally dealt with???

I am totally confused, so i know how you feel...chin up hey!

xxx
 
 

Reviva UK

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Post by Reviva UK » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:14 am
Hi there
Just a couple of thoughts that may help.
A. When does the redemption penalty finish? If it continues for 2 - 3 years the trustee would surely need to factor this into the equation because if the house was sold by him it would have to be paid back, thus reducing the equity.
B. Houses are not selling at all well now and mortgage companies are making obtaining a mortgage more and more difficult. Therefore you may want to consider getting a proper valuation for mortgage purposes ( this will cost you money ) but it is a formal valuation and would accurately identify how a mortgage lender would value the house for mortgage purposes. Lets not forget that estate agents can get carried away sometimes and a £5k difference in value has a huge impact on you.
C. You can always try to negotiate with the Trustee. If he did sell the house to release your equity he would only have half of what was left AFTER costs. These include the redemption penalty, estate agent fees of 1.75% + VAT or auction fees of £X, solicitor fees of approximately £600 etc . If he gets it wrong he could end up with a sale at auction and no equity.

I hope this helps
Paul Johns
Reviva UK
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:57 pm
The Official Receiver never factors the redemption penalty into the calculation of beneficial interest Paul. If he/she takes the bullet in an eventual sale they have a "so be it" viewpoint.

In the event that the OR does not arrive at a sensible agreement with this poster, it is likely that the case will be referred to a private sector IP - who tend to be far more commercial as their fees are based upon getting a deal done.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

Reviva UK

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Post by Reviva UK » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:16 pm
Hi Melanie
I am not an Insolvency Practitioner so will bow to your industry knowledge.
However from the few cases that I have been involved in the Official Receiver has been realistic about what would be achieved from a sale, which naturally takes into account the redemption penalty. The mortgage company has first call on the proceeds so if it was redeemed in the clause period this becomes a real cost.

As a tax payer I am now seriously concerned that they would take it on the chin and incurr a "loss" as this would be met from goverment coffers - i.e. all of us.

I would also very much appreciate your thoughts on the passing of a case to an external IP. If there were little equity at full market value ( say £3 - 5k) excluding sale fees. Is it likely that they would want to take the case on as it seems to me that there would be no financial reward for all the work involved.

Many thanks
Paul
Paul Johns
Reviva UK
Assisted Bankruptcy Specialists
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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:48 pm
When agreeing for a third party to purchase the beneficial interest in a property, the Official Receiver is not taking notice of the amount which would be available under sale conditions, but the value of the equity at that point in time. A redemption penalty is only taken account of in the event of a sale, and for these purposes is excluded from the calulation of equity by the Official Receiver, especially if the negotiations are being held with the bankrupt's spouse.

As a tax-payer I am afraid that you have little say in the actions of the Official Receiver, and the loss is hardly met from government coffers but rather the pockets of the creditors - who in my experience get rather uninterested once they are aware that a bankruptcy order has been made. For the record my personal view is that redemption penalties should be taken into account, but the I don't make the rules!

A private sector IP is unlikely to be offered a case where equity is less than £10k as these would remain within the RTLUs which were specifically set up to realise low value assets.
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

lisa1978

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Post by lisa1978 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:38 pm
Good Afternoon

What does it mean when your case gets sent to RTUL ? Mine was a month ago and not sure why ?

Also are you ok to complain if you feel your not treated fair ?

Thanks

Lisa
Lisa
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