avoid bankrupcy

[Andy2]

You need to work VERY quickly on this Andy. It seems this debt has been outstanding a year and I am afraid procrastination on your part comes to mind and that is how a judge will see it. The petitioning creditor knows that a BR petition - and the loading of costs - will spur you to action - and it is working ! YOU NEED TO OFFER THEM THE £5200 NOW BEFORE THE HEARING ! Your other creditors will not petition for BR but if the order is granted and you have to divulge EVERYTHING to the OR, they will know about it then and only then. May I ask, was the card a corporate Amex ? If it IS you REALLY need to act fast - they will go ahead with the BR - I have seen it happen but thankfully not to me !

[freelili]

Cab might be able to help with this, sorry I got your name wrong last post.

LILY

can it be, I am forever loved and you are watching over from above, isnt faith believing all power is not seen?

[andy.m]

Andy ,many thanks for your reply.

The corp card was not Amex, but NatWest.

Granted I have buried my head in the sand somewhat. But lately it's been more out of ignorance than intent.

I was last in contact with my company solicitor in Jan when I asked for a few days extension to the Stat Dem. Thinking that once this date passed there was no going back against BR proceedings. I was told that this was not acceptable and would receive no further notices except my partition for BR. This is what we were waiting for, it has only been since this that I have understood that things can be done leading up to the court date, I thought that you were pertioned for BR went to court and pleaded your case or offered to pay the full amount.

This, I have since found out, is extremely ignorant.

If I offer to pay the £5000 do you think the creditor would accept, they have been very hard ball up to this point.

[Andy2]

I would take it that Natwest are just as keen as Amex! You CAN let it run to a BR hearing but I would not as it opens up a whole lot of worms - you would still have to deal with an OR even if you were looking at getting it overturned. Best to bite the bullet and get it dealt with before then. Natwest just want to get their money - they will accept if you get it to them a good time BEFORE the 15th and then the BR hearing does not have to go ahead at all. Don't think of doing it on the 15th - do it now - and DON'T ask for time to pay - they are "beyond" that now after a year. What payments - if any - have you made in the last year to them ? Be honest - we won't judge [:)]

[andy.m]

It,s not Natwest petitioning for BR, it's my old company.

It seems they settled the account with NW and it's now in their hands.

We were in last contact when we made a payment of £300 last November. We then made an agreement to pay the full amount over 2 months (they originally asked for £1000 pw). I then sent a cheque for £1750. This cheque bounced, this was through no fault of mine as my bank withdrew 2 loan repayments in one go instead of the 1. They duly sent me a letter to provide to the debtor accepting responsibility for the bounced cheque. I presented this information to the creditor and they have chosen not to accept this.

From there it escalated to a stat dem. From there we thought that it had to be settled in court.

[Andy2]

That sounds right - the company have paid the debt but are now coming after you for it as the person who ran it up. The thing is they will have been able to see all your spending on the card (all the transactions) so if any of this was personal spending they will not be very happy with you. It is one of those things where - to avoid BR - you need to pay the debt plus their costs and then draw a line under this one. The person I know had a corporate Amex, left the company who then settled the debt with AMEX and then came after him for it. This was all legal as he had run the debt up. He made a few small payments to them and then procrastinated and procrastinated thinking his former company will not do anything. How wrong he was. THEY went for the BR petition just like with you - they are a big PLC and they were not going to have the michael taken out of them by a former employer. That's how their solicitors think ! But it worked and he paid up in full ! If they had not done the BR petition he would still be procrastinating now so you can see their point. At the end of the day anyone owed more than £750 by anybody can be petitioned for bankruptcy and the petitioner can claim the costs of the pursuit as well.

[andy.m]

If I was to be honest, I would have to admit that I probably would be too.

Does this mean that I should look to offewr the company the full amount of £10000?

Is an IVA an option - with these cost of £10000 I would probably qualify. My main concerns are losing the house. More so for my wife and family.

If so, what are the difficulties of going for an IVA whilst being petitioned for BR. I have doubts on whteher I can raise £10000 in less than 2 weeks. It have taken everything to get to £5000.

I take some solace in knowing I am not the only one foolish enough to have screwed up on a corp card.

[Andy2]

To be honest the £10,000 is a SCARE tactic to get you to act before the 15th. But make no mistake, they will go ahead with the BR - even just out of spite. The actual amount you need to pay is the £5,200 BEFORE the BR hearing. You will not be alone with the corporate card problem. With these the employer pays the debt if the cardholder defaults and so the defaulter thinks "oh I won't bother then - I'll pay my company off in dribs and drabs if at all!" But at the end of the day the defaulter ran up that debt so the employer can legally pursue you with the full power of bankruptcy. And they will do it just to show the former employer who is "still" boss. Ring up their solicitors now, tell them the £5200 can be paid PROVIDING the BR hearing does not commence. Get them to put it in writing, however this is one deadline you have to meet. Forget the risk of a bounced cheque - do a chaps transfer for peace of mind. You can of course just ignore it and wait for the 15th and go ahead with BR but if you have got the money I would pay em and chalk it up to experience. You don't want to get to the point of the OR sifting through your life and THEN thinking I wish I'd paid them. It's too late then. Your other creditors will not even be contemplating making you BR - it is the actions of the company you worked for to "teach" a former procrastinating employer a lesson [B)]

[andy.m]

I can't seem to see your last reply Andy.

It's appeared.

That is the route I shall take, do I approach the inhouse solicitor at my old company who seems to be petitioning, or would they be using a seperate solicitor?

[Andy2]

Definitely use the one that has made the petition as they are the ones that can reverse it. There are many people on here who say BR is a "relief" but this really only applies if you have little/no assets and debts that you have no chance of repaying. Anyone who has a chance of NOT going bankrupt should take the non BR route. In reality it is ultra rare for an "ordinary" creditor to petition you for BR - it is invariably the Inland Revenue, an individual themselves OR a petition from someone who wants to see you suffer. I would say the last one applies to you - don't give them the satisfaction. Keep us posted along the way.

[andy.m]

Can they refuse my offer to settle before the hearing date if I offer the £5000?

[thebear29uk]

Andy

Just to add my take on your situation. The 10K figure is quoted as after BR so will surely include the OR fees etc. As Andy2 states if you settle this before it gets to court on the 15th the hearing will be cancelled by the petitioning creditor and everything will go away and you can carry on servicing your other creditors normally. If you leave it til the 15th and can't pay the full 10K you will be made BR and all your other creditors brought into it. Just look at the situation with the Liverpool footballer John Arne Riise. He had an ongoing contested invoice with a previous agent and was issued with BR proceedings. He did nothing about it and was made bankrupt. His name and address appeared in the local paper and on the register.

You have 2 weeks to contact your ex company's solicitors. Alternatively you could contact the clerk of the court (should be info on court papers you received) to see if you are able to settle with the court directly. Probably not but given the short timescale do everything you can to effect a speedy settlement.

Regards

Dave

[andy.m]

Many thanks indeed to all. I shall take this option and get everything solved.

I shall update you as things happen.

Again many thanks for help and adivce, just this thread seems to have lifted some of the doubt and fear.

[Adam Davies]

Good luck
Theres something wrong if a debt can rise to that sort of amount through costs......I really hope common sense prevails and you can settle for the 5k
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson and site manager
(aka Neverending)

Please check out my blog: http://andydavie.blogs.iva.co.uk

View my profile here:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

[Skippy]

I agree with Andy 2 - bankruptcy is only a relief if you have no other options. It was the best way forward for me, but if you can prevent it, do everything you can to stop it.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/