VOTE: IVA/BR - Dilemma

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andymac

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Post by andymac » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:08 pm
Hi,

I have been using this site for about a week or so, and I wish I had found it sooner, great resourse! here goes as sucinctly as possibly...

Partner and I rent a house.
I have no assets, she has about 50k.
I am insolvent, she is fine.
I am Company Director of a family business (father is boss).
I have 150k ish of unsecured debts, all in my name.

I could either borrow from parents/partner 45k and go for a full and final IVA... but I still owe parents 45k (without interest) after 5 years. I go into the agreement with debts, and come out with ,albeit smaller, but still significant borrowings.

or go for a Bankruptcy.

The problem as I see it:

Loss of Directorship: not a huge problem, but could be if I got a BRU. I havnt been naughty as I see it, but am worried about a few "extravagant" expenses, namely a few holiday after my partner was diagnosed with a very serious illness, as well as the potential danger of being accused of "borrowing without the means to pay off the debt". Our house took 18 months to sell, rather than what everyone thought, which was about 4-6 months.

IF I knew that I would come out unscathed via a Bankruptcy after 1 year, with an IPO for 3, I would go for the Bankruptcy route.
However, it is the uncertainty of what the OR will think of my past.....

My partner got a pay out for a critical illness, and I wont touch her assets on Moral/fairness grounds.

What would you do, given the limited details provided here?
Last edited by andymac on Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:14 pm
The main problem with bankruptcy proceedings is that you are out of control and will not know what is likely to happen until after the event - at which you cannot change your mind and backtrack.

80% of my clients would have been better off financially by filing for bankruptcy, but the majority of them either feel responsible for repaying their creditors or worried about an asset or their lifestyle being affected.

Only you can make the right decision, as you are the most important factor here - and the one who has to live through the repayments to your family. Take time to weigh up all of the pros and cons of each procedure before making your mind up.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

jpj

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Post by jpj » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:38 pm
You say you have no assets...I think they consider your share/shares in the business as an asset of yours!!

If you go for an IVA you can still be a director,handy in the unlikely event that your father died say and there was nobody to run the company!

You cant do a full and final IVA, you have to do an IVA, pay into it for a year or 2 then do a full and final offer which might or might not be accepted!

Depending on your company, I think you might find If you do an IVA it could affect the companies ability to borrow money as one of the directors will be registered as insolvent. If you go bankcrupt and step down as a director i presume this will help protect the companies credit rating, but im sure Melanie or other forum members can advise on this.
 
 

mikebdomain

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Post by mikebdomain » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:51 pm
The normal answer is that an IVA will not effect your ability to act as a company director, however;

If a company has adopted the specimen set of Articles set out in the Companies Act of 1985 without any modification, then Article 81 of Table A provides for the ‘disqualification and removal of directors’ if he becomes bankrupt or makes any arrangement or composition with his creditors generally’.

The same provision appears in Table A of the 1948 act at article 85 and so appears in many companies’ articles.

An IVA is an arrangement and a composition with creditors and so any director whose company adopts Article 81 must vacate office on the date the IVA is made. Of course he may seek reappointment immediately and can then continue as a director during the period of the IVA – but not so if he a bankrupt.

A situation can therefore arise where a director unaware or unadvised of the provision of the Article 81 continues in the belief that he is a director involved in the management of the company, whereas he is automatically vacated from office by virtue of entering the IVA.

This is where potentially difficult consequences can arise and where the director needs to consider his position –

If he fails to vacate office and continues to purport to act on behalf of the company he might be acting outside the scope of his authority and may be personally liable to third parties with whom he enters into contracts with the company

If he continues in office after he should have vacated he will certainly be regarded as a shadow director as defined in s.741 of the Companies Act 1985.

Ref: The Tarzan Trust v Wilson

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MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:54 pm
jpj

Not sure what you mean by not being able to do a full and final IVA. If the money is coming from a third party source, and there is no disposable income, then a full and final offer is definately possible.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

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jpj

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Post by jpj » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:58 pm
So can you set up an IVA and pay it off via a full and final payment immediately??
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:11 pm
Very much so - well it usually takes three months to do properly!

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
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Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

jpj

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Post by jpj » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:13 pm
You learn something new every day....Sounds like a good option for AndyMac!
 
 

andymac

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Post by andymac » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:13 am
Hi,

It is a good option, I agree.

I have no shares in the business, yet.

If I was 100% sure that no BRU would be granted, I would go for the BR. It is clean, lasts 1 year, and cheap.

My ONLY honest issue is that:

1. During a time when our joint house was about to sell, i borrowed money to consolidate as I knew my house was about to sell. At the time, it could be said that I was insolvent, however I did it because I knew I could pay it back; the house sale didnt happen as soon as I had hoped, so I was robbing to pay for the other.

2. Extravagance was in the form of a holiday or 2 after my partners illness diagnosis. No gambling or buying frivalous gifts, just a reaction to a bad life event. I dont think either of these are super serious, but nonetheles, they still could be seen as recklessness?
 
 

MelanieGiles

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Post by MelanieGiles » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:17 am
Andy

What happened to the sale proceeds of the joint property?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp
Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner
 
 

andymac

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Post by andymac » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:24 am
split 50/50, and provable.

I paid off whatever expensive high rate creditors I could.

Partner did the same, and also bought her self a car.
 
 

jpj

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Post by jpj » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:43 am
If your 150k in debt I dont think your creditors would be too worried about 1 holiday!

Im sure we were all technically insolvent way before we considered our IVAs !
 
 

Skippy

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Post by Skippy » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:57 pm
You're going through the emotions that all of us have gone through. I can understand you worrying about a BRU - it's something I have thought about. I was struggling when some of my loans were taken out - I was robbing Peter to pay Paul and the money was borrowed to consolidate loans as I always thought I could repay it, and up until last summer I could.

My advice to you is to sit down and weigh up the pros and cons of all your options, take advice from an IP and then do what is best for you, not for your creditors.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

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lily

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Post by lily » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:23 pm
Skippy is right, I thought I was the only one in the mess I was in, I didnt know that you could do anything about debt apart from to pay it all back. Never heard of IVA's and I thought BR was only for buisness people.

You dont have time to think it through, you need a quick fix to pay a direct debt, so the credit card is the answer until pay day, right? Well its saves the day. It only when I hit my limit I realised the prverbial and all his mates had hit the fan.

lily
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