why do so many IVA's seem to fail..?

[MelanieGiles]

Lily

I continue to be concerned about the differing levels of advice provided within the debt industry and even my own profession. And you have made a very good point here.

Not everyone does have access to the internet. I generally assume that people do these days, but you are absolutely correct and therefore it is more important to ensure that clients without this service are provided with as much information as possible to enable them to take a balanced view.

And by the way I love your new Avatar. Is that a real photo you are using?



Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[lily]

Thanks Melanie

Yes it is the photo is of me feeding a newborn kitten, its called all you need is love. I am raising four newborn kittens as they were premature and the mother had no mammory development. I am their mom as far as they know, its been hard work but the best experience I have ever had, night and day. The RSPCA gave them zero chance but they are all alive and kicking and three weeks old!!!!

Admin did it for me.

lily

[bagpuss]

to be real honest Lily..i think its was luck...i really do. I new nothing of IVA's...i had read a bit about then on the net...took a few numbers from sites...(there where hundreds) and rang a few...i was told by 1 that we would have to BR as we didnt have enough disposable income, he said nothing of F/F using our equity. Then another said we couldnt cos we had N/R as a creditor...i was getting mixed messages from everyone and didnt know who to listen to or trust.

Thats when i rang CAB...they gave me 2 telephone numbers and i just rang the first one she gave me. Grant Thornton

What was different with what they said was that they didnt confirm or promise anything...what they wanted right off was a meeting, arranged in my home town.

When we got there it all just felt right...(crazy but true) i bugged poor Dawn Shelly day and night with my questions...emails, phone calls, i told her i didnt understand things so she broke it down and explained again...i said i forgot what we had to do next so she emailed me a list...etc...

I guess i went with my gut feelings.

As a first port of call i would always have said ring CAB...but unless they get feedback on how the company represented you then i guess they too could give phone numbers out of firms that aint so good....thats why i say it was pure luck that i got who i got.

Knowing what i know now..i'd say check out this site...and check out the The IVA Comparison Site.

Angie xx


My IVA Story......http://bagpuss.blogs.iva.co.uk/2007/09/ ... iva-story/

[MelanieGiles]

Would love to see you posting photos of their progress on your blog. Is this possible does anyone know?

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[louiseh]

If I offended any one by implying that the onus is on the debtor to make themselves aware of what they are letting themselves in for, when enetering an IVA, sorry but thats my opinion. I have an enquiring mind and was brought up to believe that ignorance is not a reason but an excuse. Todays soceity does seem biased towards shifting responsibility, pleading ignorance and aportioning blame elsewhere. Sorry it's been a long day and i'm probably getting argumentative.

[lily]

I dont think anyone would be offended by you expressing your opinion louise, I wouldnt want to offend anyone either, I have my own views about blame etc. Reasons are as individual as we are, the same goes for the amount or the ability to understand the information or research ability or availibility.

In simple terms debt sucks, IVA's are hard to understand. If youre lucky enough to find a really good IP, with patience and an interest in explaining everything in a way that you can understand it, you'll have a good experience and complete your IVA. If not then youre going to have the opposite and thats a shame, but that is only my own opinion.

Melanie if I can do it, I will.

lily

[catullus]

I think that the quality of the posts on this thread demonstrate the level of knowledge and commitment that this board possesses.

Everyone comes from this issue from slightly different perspectives and I don't claim to have the monopoly on the truth, I'm aiming to give the IP's perspective which isn't always the fully balanced one.

My posts may have appeared unsympathetic to the problems some people will always get themselves in to but anyone who finds themselves with such a problem will, I am sure,
find that both Melanie and myself will endeavour to offer practical advice and solutions without appearing to judge.

[Skippy]

Can I just say that maybe everyone should have to actually meet their IP? It is often easier to understand things if they are explained face to face. I was referred to an IP a couple of hundred miles away, and with hindsight I should have said I wanted someone closer. I wasn't even offered the chance to speak with my IP - it wasn't until I found this forum (by which time it was too late as it was almost my creditor's meeting) that I thought things weren't right.

I'm not stupid, nor am I lazy - I did read through the proposal and I accept that I should have picked up the discrepancy in the figures. Mind you, when I did tell my case worker that some of the other figures were were wrong I was told not to worry that they had put down expenditure I didn't have and missed off stuff that I did - oh how I wish I'd been stronger!

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[MelanieGiles]

Very interesting - expenditure that you did not have Skippy?? Just the very thing that gives our profession a very bad name and this needs to be stamped out. No wonder creditors are not trusting the figures put in front of them with this sort of nonsense going on.

Regards, Melanie Giles, Insolvency Practitioner for over 20 years.

To have me propose an IVA for you, please visit:
http://www.melaniegiles.com/ivaEnquiry.asp

See customer feedback at:
http://www.iva.com/iva_companies/IVA_Advice_Bureau.asp

[Skippy]

I pointed out that they had put an allowance for gas, which we don't have and was told not to worry about it! I also didn't have a car maintenance allowance, but when I queried it was told that the gas allowance covered it!

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is the present - a gift to make the most of.

View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[lily]

I rang 3 companies and was told different things from each one, first one said go BR (no assets, rented house since my divorce). I didnt want to hear that so I moved on, 2nd one banged on about the amount I wouldnt be paying back,must have said 'government legislation' about 6 times seemed desperate to sign me up, smelt a rat, moved on. 3rd one and the best one so far, said I had a lot of debt (25K)with a very sharp intake of breath if I went BR I would lose everything but did at least mention it. Googled IVA loads of companies advertising 'you could have 75-90% of debt written off., you have to fill in the wizzard and someone rings you back.

The point was, how do you do your homework? By the time you get the proposal its too late, you only know what you have been told, how do you know whats being said is accurate?

Catullus, that was the point I was trying to make, its harsh to expect people to understand what is actually a mine field out there. I wasnt IP bashing. You give your time free on this forum and very good advice, you tell it like it is, but I still believe there is a lot of 'tell it like it isnt' companies out there and apart from this site and others like it, its hard for the debtors to know the difference.

We all got ourselves into this mess but I believe deserve to be treated fairly when we are trying to do something about it.

lily

[ray_a]

For my own point of view I would like to say this:-

Firstly, I was in serious danger of our IVA failing which was due to the fact that I went into an IVA to protect my position in the financial field and that would perhaps give a strong indication of what I do! Basically being self employed I rely on being paid for my work and when I set up the proposal which I did originally I honestly believed that I could make the payments even when it was varied. When a couple of my clients went out of business and one was considerable it had resulted in a dramatic change in my fortune. The problem is that sometimes i have to look at insolvency as part of my work and know what to do when advising people! I am even better with the support of this forum!
I did read my paperwork and yes in my case I should have looked at the clause relating to statutory interest! I also believe that a clause like that given the advertising of IVA's it should have been pointed out to both me and my wife!

When we saw the IVA was not working we decided that we should sell our home and clear our creditors because we took our responsibilities seriously.
However in saying that I am expected to work to a higher financial level which I expect. I am sure Catullus and Melanie do their work well and would watch out for the problems before they arise! I also except like me dealing with people is not the easiest thing to do especially when it comes to paying tax! The phrase "Please don't shoot the Messanger" comes to mind!

I am concerned that someone who has an IVA is able to sell their house without their IP and solicitors dealing with the conveyance are not aware of the IVA in the first place. This results in a very difficult legal problem which we as a forum will no doubt have to deal with!

In addition many people who enter IVA's generally want to sort their finances out but because IVA's as a form of protection are by nature fluid as opposed to the way they are advertised!

This of course does lead to IP's getting frustated and falling down when trying to sort the problems out. At the end it really depends on whether the IP or any accountant is proactive in dealing with each particular person/ company's affairs!

To sum up debt is very stressful as we often see and we all need to be honest and take the best advice to deal with it. I wish I had this forum in 2004 as I would have done things very differently!

[Lisa2009]

my hubby has NEVER once spoke to his IP in 3 years. It used to be quite frustrating. Not too bad now, everything is done via email to a lady at the IVA firm. Cant complain (any more) shes very quick at returning emails.......Even at night which was surprising.

[Sadsack]

This is turning out to be quite a topic!!

I agree with the majority on this thread and also accept that there are going to be debtors out there who will no doubt do their best to be as unco-operative as possible. Generally speaking, all we as debtors want to do is get out of the terrible mess we got ourselves into.

I consider myself to be fairly intelligent, (I do have a degree!!!!)and would under normal circumstances not blindly stumble into something. The pressure of being in so much debt, is in my opinion not normal circumstances, and I rather stupidly took the first solution offered to me. In hindsight (what a wonderful thing it is!!) I would never have gone with the first IVA company that offered me a "way out". Furthermore, the fact that I NEVER spoke to my IP should have set the warning bells ringing (I managed to get to speak to my IP 7 months into my IVA and that was just to shout and belittle me).

A face to face meeting with a prospective IP should be mandatory. Being in debt is emotive and the IP will have the opportunity to guage the debtors willingness and ability to see the IVA through to its conclusion. By the same token, the debtor will also be in position to make a decision as to whether they "like" the IP and whether they are comfortable working with them for the next 5 years.

There is also the issue of "unreasonable" payments. We debtors are obligated and should pay our creditors as much as we possibly can. Most IP's will go through our I & E with a fine tooth comb and put a reasonable proposal to the creditors based on our ability to pay. I think the problems arise when the creditors ask for a modification for a minimum return. Being that the IP has calculated everything correctly, surely the IP is in a far better position to point out to the creditors that by increasing the return (p/£), the debtor is not going to be able to maintain the payments which would ultimately result in the IVA failing and then having to petition for bankruptcy, which in turn would give them very little and sometimes no return.

Now I am not saying that all IP's don't "fight" the debtors corner, there are many IP's out there who are worth their weight in gold (you know who you are!!), but it would be interesting see how many proposals put forward are accepted without modifications.

Sue

Ho Hum! Think I'll bang my drum!

Read My Blog
http://sadsack.blogs.iva.co.uk/

[Adam Davies]

Hi
I agree with Catullus and Melanie that people should look carefully at their proposal and any modifications made.If all IPs were like Catullus and Melanie then there would be no need for a forum like this and the fact that they both give up their time to post gives you an idea of their honesty and empathy towards people in debt.
However the reality is that the vast amount of people who are blinkered and overwhelmed by debt put their trust in professionals.
And why shouldn't they ?
Yes in an ideal world people should do some homework and find sites like this and question everything that they don't understand but human nature is to trust people who are in a position of power/knowledge and it really should be down to the IP and their staff to ensure that everything is explained and understood and if it means a one to one meeting is a condition of an IVA then let's go down that road.
Regards

Andy Davie
IVA.co.uk Spokesperson

About me:
http://www.iva.co.uk/andy_davie_profile.asp

IVA Helpline: 0800 197 4838
http://www.iva.co.uk/iva_helpline.asp